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This topic is like a VD. It just won't go away. Listen, certs help you to get in the door most of the time. They say "Hey I know the difference between RAM and a CPU (A+) or I know how to subnet an IP address (MCSE)." They DO NOT make you a guru or an engineer. After that it is all expierence. Alot of you are missing the point of a college degree in this field. It says to an employer that you can learn (and you better keep learning in this job), you can meet deadlines and that you can usually think on your feet. It seems that the self taught people here wear thier stubborness like a badge of honor. I say cudos to you, it just means that people like me who pay for the certs and college will be making more money in cushier jobs and will be retired by the time we are forty.
Do it cause you love it, but take the money.
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Talk about a poor attitude!!!!!! Employers don't have the chance to make sure you "can do it" or not prior to hiring for a position. A degree or a certification. and work experience is all they have to rely on.
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It would probably depend on the job you are trying to get. Some companies will not hire/promote with that little piece of paper no matter HOW much you know. Others would be happy with letters of recommendation from previous customers as well as a list of qualifications/experience. Specifics may be helpful. It all depends on the company.
Personally, I would never work for a company that will only promote you if you've spent hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of dollars on certifications but will not promote you if you have the knowledge but not the piece of paper. Something tells me this ignorate way of thinking would not stop there.
James
Las Vegas, NV
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Looks like the only people knocking degrees and certifications are the people who don't have them.
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i have no certifications, have never been taught anything.
to corporations and small buisiness, i am not qualified enough to get a job with them.
I have taught myself everything i know about computers, from hardware to software to operating systems.
certs are irrelevant, especially now more than ever - you can get the cheat sheets and cram your head out, take the test and not know a damn thing.
i knew a guy who was mcse certified and didnt know a lick of dos (matter of fact - i said command prompt and looked at me crosseyed)
they are a waste of time and money as far as im concerend.
and one more thing about temps (i do the temp thing) i have found that about 90% of the employees that i have worked with ask me the questions - when they have been there for years and should know how to get windows into safe mode or change a bios.
thing is - most managers are - managers. they dont know a thing about computers or how to fix them. you could tell them that ipx/spx is a part of the videocard and they would think that you know your stuff, and what better way to pack them full of it than with a certification that 'says' you know your stuff.
what i find really funny is the MCSE or A+ certified people that work at best buy - they make like 7/hr - its hilarious...
[This message has been edited by kannibul (edited June 09, 2000).]
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I've been working on computers professionally since I was 12 (ten years ago) as a contractor for my father. I've always been around computers. Since I was 3 my father has had parts laying around the house. I currently am employed in a small town (less than 50k people) in a small 2 man computer repair shop. I have no certs. I do have an AA in Communications.
The importance of certification matters depending on what career you are looking for. If you want your own business or to work in a small shop, you only need a quick mind and experience. But if you plan on working for a corporation or government organization with a large steady check, you need certifications.
If you're young and have a quick mind you can get hired by a medium to large size company and work your way up, earning certifications as you go. That's exactally what my brother has done. He has Novell, Microsoft, Cisco, 3Com, Hewlett Packard, Compaq, and probably a ton more that I don't know about. He's 23 and gets just about anything he asks for at his company.
But without his background he would have never made it into the door. As with most jobs, you learn from experience and time. However, you have to gain enough experience to get your foot in the door, and then let them pay for the certifications.
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I just took and passed my A+ i work at a computer store where i was the only one not certified..and this new certification did not give me a raise or any sort of benefits..i think that it looks good on a resume because it lets your potential employer know that you have the know how to do what you say you can do and it also save them a lot of dectective work to see if you really know about computers...i have abut 3 years job experience with computers which has been the only way i would of attempted the exams..people who read books and pass and dont know a damn thing are a joke..(i'd hate to have them in my office..always asking questions that they should know the answer to..like how do you fdisk) and take the jobs that techs like many of you and myself could get based on experience alone..so certs are good for people who deserve them
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I own a support business and would prefer someone like jynxis, who has experience and apparently a stable head on his/her shoulders. The certs and age mean very little to me. I need people that can provide a solution for a problem, and yes, they do need to think on their feet.
I'm guessing your age is about 22 and I am very impressed with your attitude. Pass on compliments to your parents - great job!
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I am 23 years old and I hold many certifications including Microsoft Certified Professional, Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, Certified Novell Administrator in IntranetWare and Netware 5, Certified Novell Engineer in IntranetWare and Netware 5, GroupWise 5.5 Administrator, Compaq Accredited Systems Engineer, A+ certified, and many HP Warranty certifications. Certifications have made a huge impact on my career in the networking field. These certifications do bring worth to the company. Many clients look at the different certifications that the networking consultants have while deciding which consultant to go with. It not only helps you personally but also helps the company you work for. I also have a degree in Electronics Engineering but I think the certifications have helped me much more than the degree in the real networking market.
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I am 23 years old and I hold many certifications including Microsoft Certified Professional, Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, Certified Novell Administrator in IntranetWare and Netware 5, Certified Novell Engineer in IntranetWare and Netware 5, GroupWise 5.5 Administrator, Compaq Accredited Systems Engineer, A+ certified, and many HP Warranty certifications. Certifications have made a huge impact on my career in the networking field. These certifications do bring worth to the company. Many clients look at the different certifications that the networking consultants have while deciding which consultant to go with. It not only helps you personally but also helps the company you work for. I also have a degree in Electronics Engineering but I think the certifications have helped me much more than the degree in the real networking market.
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Credentials, credentials, credentials, they tell the story when you're looking for work. I got in this field after I retired from the AF (26.5 yrs). Went to college and got my present job, as a Computer Engineer with the state of Delaware. I now have 13.5 years with the state working on the second retirement. I'm 71 years old and I love what I'm doing. As long as I can stay productive I'll continue to work. But you need credentials to get that better job. I changed career fields when I was 54 years old and I feel sure that the diploma was the deciding factor in my getting the job. There is a prejudice against hiring folks over 50. The credentials help overcome that handicap. There's my "two cents" for what ever it's worth.
Bob Arthur
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Bob Arthur
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I am in a situation similar to yours RGK01, and am taking my A+ cert test soon..My business is conducted as an in-home repair business, and the only difference i expect the certification to make is to help combat the word-of-mouth comments from in-store tech departments that use their a+ cert as a selling point. However, if i was interested in obtaining employment in the field at large, i would obtain all the certs i could, since human resources depts are quite fond of benchmarks such as this.
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Think about this, get past your teens and early 20's and settle into a career some. You work for a big company, there is a promotion available and the company prefers to hire from within.
The salary will be substantial, responsibility great. one candidate has no certs, no education, is a darn good worker. the other college educated, certified and a good worker. the manager has to decide which of the two is worth the big salary and promotion. along with that the manager must justify this to his boss/peers.
this new position requires managing people, making budgets, setting raises for others, writing memo's keeping the department on track, along with all the other IT/IS work that must go on.
uneducated uncertified or educated and certified. uneducated uncertified, educated and certified?
which candidate do you want to be? the decision seems simple to me. how about you?
