I saw a HORRIBLE thing today.

Two of our cats are rescue jobs from situations like this.

Billy, our blue-point Siamese, was found on the road with a broken jaw. We think someone kicked him. He was terrified of people for a couple of years, but now he is THE most affectionate and friendly and gentle cat you have ever met, too... :mad:

Ember, our tortoiseshell (black and brown) was found by my wife out walking. She was a newborn kitten, too young to be separated from her mother, and a LITTLE KID WAS GRINDING HER FACE INTO THE SIDEWALK. Ember is still missing the front half of her lower jaw and has some teeth pointing out in weird angles. My wife simply took the cat away from the kid and kept walking, never looked back.

Under my wife's care, and my help later on, both of these cats have grown up to become two of the most amazing pets we have ever known, very affectionate and caring... I never liked cats before knowing our three.

I only hope that that kid learned at some point that what he was doing was wrong.

:mad:

I have never hit an animal. I have swerved severly in order to avoid them, sometimes scaring my passengers. This one time there was a group of us going white water rafting and I was the lead car. We were on this 2 lane highway that nobody barely ever used. On this highway there was about 1 squirel per 2 feet, I'm not joking. I did not hit one. They would even run along side of the car, some of them even seemed like they had a death wish. Also on that road I almost hit a rabbit that popped out of no where but swerved to miss him. Also a hawk almost did a face plant into my winsheild, he was so close everybody including me ducked, but I did not hit him either because I swerved. The car behind me could not believe that I didn't hit anything and I'm glad that I was the lead car because he wanted to just plow through without swerving. This road went on for at least 10 miles.
When I was smaller the lady who picked me up for school accidentally ran over my cat. I saw my cat stick his head up for a second and then die. I missed school that day, and the lady was crying to and I never blamed her. Actually my cat had a tendency of not to get out of the way of traffic. It was sad because my cats friend (another cat) sat by him for a long time just waiting. Actually my cats friend eventually became our cat as it started to come to our house. But now that cat is no more and I have two right now. Sorry for the long story, just memories.

I like animals as well but I must say this......
If you ever injured or more (too horrible for me even to type) a family member because you swerved to miss a squirrel and went into thier lane or something comparable YOU would be the one I would be trying to drive down (either physically, emotionally or financially-all depending).

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>Makes me wonder what some people think of hunting. It is essentially the same as deliberately hitting an animal with your car, except that you went out and purchased an item, and applied for a license, specifically to kill small woodland creatures. Is that better, or worse than running animals down in the street? One is much more deliberate and pre-meditated than the other. Just curious.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think hunting just for the sake of killing / male bonding / etc.. is wrong.

My father in law hunts. But what he kills (deer), he uses as much as he can.
He'll clean it, use all the meet (and I mean ALL the meet). The unusable parts become dog / guniea hen food. The hide gets tanned and made into a rug, decoration of some sort. I don't know what he does with bones, maybe donates them. He even takes the hoves and makes knifes out of them.
That, I don't have a problem with.

I don't consider hunting ethically wrong if you use the entire animal and aren't merely out for trophies.

As for pets, in my few short years I have learned that there are more depraved people than one will conciously allow oneself to accept. These people have motivated me to keep my pets indoors most of the time (except for a few activities dogs should only perform outdoors). Every dog or cat I have owned has been trained that bolting for the door or the street results in time in a kennel. They have all been well trained enough not to try to run even if they see kids outside to play with. I have taken them to parks before and had them stay within a few feet of me without a leash. People who abuse their pets sicken me and those who deliberately hurt animals for 'pleasure' make me doubt our claim to supremacy.

I'm just glad that with my pets being house pets that anyone who tries to hurt them will have to break in and deal with me first. I've got many long, sharp, pointy things to deal with such people.

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>Makes me wonder what some people think of hunting. It is essentially the same as deliberately hitting an animal with your car, except that you went out and purchased an item, and applied for a license, specifically to kill small woodland creatures. Is that better, or worse than running animals down in the street? One is much more deliberate and pre-meditated than the other. Just curious.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree. Hunting is a predatorial Instinct, I however do not endorse trophy hunting. I personally no longer deer hunt, nor do I enjoy it, but I do enjoy the taste of venison. I believe it is ok to hunt if you do not waste what you take. Without some kind of animal control, their would be surplus population which would decrease the resources they need to survive. Which is a more cruel death, a quick gun-kill or starving to death over a period of time, with the possibility of being mauled by wolves or coyotes? Yes we do have wolves and Coyotes in northeren Wisconsin, and a mauled deer carcass is not a pretty site....
Please don't take this as a personal attack, but living in northeren Wisconsin I have seen firsthand the hazards of overpopulation. Overpopulation also increases Car accidents, with the increased amount of deer on the roads and even in town.

By your line of reasoning Kymera, whats the difference between those who deliberately run over animals from someone going to a deli and picking up some beef, or going to mcdonalds for a burger..? Or the person who serves you the burger?I'm not trying to be argumentative, but that line of reasoning makes no sense to me...
I'm not trying to justify hunting or that meat is immoral i was just curious what lead to that conclusion.

Like Sly, I used to hunt, but everything i killed was eaten. Certain animal populations need to be keep in check for the various already mentioned reasons. And game animal meat is pretty darn tasty...Funny most of the people I know that still hunt are FAR more avid and dedicated conservationists than many who mouth the words about protecting the environment. Go figure. But again there are people of all kinds on both sides of the issue so YMMV.

The diffence between this sensless act and hunting is that the dog was run over for no reason with no chance of escape. Most hunter I have met send hours waiting for a animal to wonder into his path and most times they miss the thing. Hunting is a primal thing I will give you that but it's like camping, we as humans have spent the better half of 2000 years getting away from nature and creating a world for ourselves to live in. We don't need to do it. We create white packages with slabs of red animal matter in it and call it meat, we don't call it cow or calf we call it beef. Bacon isn't called Pig. I understand the need to get in touch with your "primal side" so it like early man and go out to the middle of no-where and live in a tent made of animal skins and eat twigs and berries since you can't catch an animal. Gun's were not developed for hunting they were made for mass distruction in an age of wars, hunting with them was just a bi-product. Back to the topic...

The fact is that this poor little dog was killed by some jerk who thought it was funny. This crule bastard doesn't deserver the air he breaths and if there is a God watching I am sure he will get his. Karma is a compleate Bi**h and what come around goes around.

OK, I will chime in on the hunting issue...

As with all evil, intent is the most important factor...

I have no problem with hunting as long as the purpose is to use the animal that is killed. In fact, we have 8 apple trees in our back yard and get more deer than we can stand back there every year. We have had quite a few hunters ask to kill a deer that has run onto our property, or that they have seen there (We don't mind.)...

For those of you who are intimidated by the idea of hunting, where do you draw the line? Would it be OK to raise my own bull and then have it butchered, so that I can have my own home grown beef? Would it be OK to shoot it myself and butcher it myself? Since it is legal and not damaging to the population, why would it not be OK for me to apply for a deer liscense and kill, butcher and eat a deer?

That said, killing for the joy of killing itself is wrong and I am firmly against that.

I understand the hypocrisy of my statement, but there are differences. Cattle are raised for the express purpose of being killed and eaten. In a way, so are those wonderful woodland creatures, but by their natural predators. Wait, what happened to all those predators, I think they were killed by hunters. I always believed that if you were going to hunt for "sport" the playing field should be level. It isn't very sporting if one side (man) has every advantage : binoculars, high-powered rifles/automatic weapons, scent camoflage, visual camoflage etc. Would basketball be a sport if one side had every man over 7' tall and the other side was composed of dwarves? That is my problem with hunting. If we actually still had to hunt for food, then I would have no problem with it. These same people who feel the need to get back to their roots, do they have a garden and grow their vegetables during hunting season? Heat their home with a wood stove? Ride a horse around? Eat nothing but the animals they kill? No, because they just want to sit around in the woods in full camoflage and wait for a deer to stumble across his sights.
I'm not arguing that hunting is or is not beneficial in terms of overpopulation, but that hunting is not a sport, and someone swerving to hit an animal in the road is about as deliberate as waiting in a tree with a rifle. There is no need for either.

First off, I think swerving to smack an animal with your vehicle is absolutely wrong. :mad:

However...

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>I understand the hypocrisy of my statement, but there are differences. Cattle are raised for the express purpose of being killed and eaten.</strong><hr></blockquote>

In some countries, dogs and cats are raised for food, just as we raise cattle, hogs, and poultry.

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>I'm not arguing that hunting is or is not beneficial in terms of overpopulation, but that hunting is not a sport, and someone swerving to hit an animal in the road is about as deliberate as waiting in a tree with a rifle. There is no need for either.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't hunt for "sport". I hunt to put meat on the table. Do I need to hunt to put meat on the table? No. But I don't hunt for the sake of hunting. There is a difference. I will not shoot anything that I cannot eat, unless in self-defense. In nearly 30 years of hunting, I've never had to shoot for self-defense...

[quote]Originally posted by The Spiffster:<strong>
First off, I think swerving to smack an animal with your vehicle is absolutely wrong. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Couldn't agree more.

[quote]Originally posted by The Spiffster:<strong>
In some countries, dogs and cats are raised for food, just as we raise cattle, hogs, and poultry.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Let's not forget horses, ducks or sheep. The important thing to remember is that they are raised to be eaten.

[quote]Originally posted by The Spiffster:<strong>
...I will not shoot anything that I cannot eat, unless in self-defense. In nearly 30 years of hunting, I've never had to shoot for self-defense...</strong><hr></blockquote>
IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!

Becasue there are angry sea bass with lazer beams attached to their forheads.

[quote]Originally posted by Renée:
<strong>Oh...my...god. I hope there's a special place in hell for those people.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I believe there is.


That is sad...I love dogs

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>These same people who feel the need to get back to their roots, do they have a garden and grow their vegetables during hunting season? </strong><hr></blockquote>


"Is this the same cunning that allows a man to sneak up on a leaf of lettuce?"

-Speaker-To-Animals, Kzinti Ambassador

[quote]Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff:
<strong>I don't hunt for "sport". I hunt to put meat on the table. Do I need to hunt to put meat on the table? No. But I don't hunt for the sake of hunting. There is a difference. I will not shoot anything that I cannot eat.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Same here. I hunt for the meat. Do I need to hunt for meat. Not really, but the money it saves on groceries right now goes to other things, like my house payment. I see the animal from start to finish. I hunt it, kill it, and process it from the field to the freezer. That way I know that none of it is going to waste and I know exactly what animal it is from. I respect the life of the animals that I shoot, and from time to time feel sorry for taking thier life, but that is the cycle of life. I only shoot in the head or neck. If my shot is off, no harm done. I my shot is true, the animal never knew what happened and dies instantly. That is the best way to do it.