Pop Quiz!!!!!!!!

You still haven't focused on the topic. What is your resolution for homeland security tactics? I certainly hope it doesn't involved solar powered cars again...
hmm.. I thought I did. The topic was to disgrace young Muslims males between the age of 17-40. My resolution is communication. If they are :) and we are :), then terrorist attacks will cease. Trust me, this solution will be more effective and less expensive than the approach of this crap “war on terrorism”. I make the comparison to the war on drugs; yeah we are winning that one too right?



Hey PacMan, not to knock you, but I have a couple of questions.
No problem cleetus, I don’t take it as a knock at all botha :D.

What do we do when the communications break down? What do we do when the communications fail?
Why did it break down? Why did it fail? Did one side want more than the other side? Was the scale of the negotiation outweighed on one side? It must have been for it to have broken or fail. One side (usually the one with more power) wanted more from the resolution. Some may say “we deserve it, we have the power over them”. Well, that’s why we have these people committing “terrorism” against these kinds of arrogant views. If we did it fairly, I’m sure there would be a peaceful resolution.

What do we do when we understand each side fully, and there is still hatred?
Then their our abhorrence disgust will be the death of us.

You keep stating that nobody understands each other, and that we don't talk.
well do we? Have there been any negotiation with Usama? Nah, we just wanna hang the bastard. At the rate we are going, not if he hangs us first. Yeah, killing him will solve this problem. We should be safe from all terrorism after his death. Obviously you and I know this is not true.
So what is the terms and conditions of Usama? (lol, I know, your thinking that bastard doesn’t deserve to be negotiated with or even to propose conditions!!!) It’s kinda like the phrase, “keep your friends close but your enemies closer”. Well actually, US and Briton and now Russia have this relationship. But with Briton, they are real close friends. But I’ll leave that in the air if anyone understands this concept. Ok, so at the UN, where is Sadaam? There’s these representatives of Iraq there. Sadaam is scared to be in the same room with Bush? If this is the case, we have no, no, no, no communication. So do we understand each other? Do we talk with them? No!


What should Isreal do? And as their ally, do we not help them, do we not understand what is happening as we have hosted many, many talks between both sides?

goinpostal answered it..
After the Holocost in WWII the US and other countrys decided to give the Jewish a home land and israel was created or given to them it used to be called Palestine ie Palesteniens.
basically the muslims had thier land taken away and and it was given to someone else who i dont think they liked to begin with. Both religeons have Holy places in israel but they are now in possesion of only one govt which is not muslim.
We support Israel and defend them so by association we are an enemy.

As i said im no expert this is just my understanding of some history if I am wrong please feel free to correct me.


1948, England gave the Jews Israel. They hold Jerusalem (city of peace) which is scared to Jews, Christians and Muslims. After years of being subjected to the holocaust all through our school life, we have developed this subconscious sympathy for the Jews. Now don’t get me wrong here now, it was a tragedy what they went through, but they are a few compared to what poor people are subjected to around the world, many of which is funded by our govt. Obviously, these continuous holocausts of other groups of people are unfamiliar to us cause our media or govt has decided they are not important. I mean Kosovo was finally covered after the US decided it was in their interest to stop the genocide being committed over there. I mean if you do your research (if you have the interest to do it), you can find a lot of sickening events going on with many disfavored groups.
Jerusalem was last held by the Autumn Empire. Briton took it from them and then gave it to the Jews. So lets Mexico take Arizona and give it to say Panama cause they felt sorry for them..(I’m sure I’ll get ppl saying this is not a good analogy again :) )
So why didn’t England keep it? It is the holiest site for Christians.
When Muslims ruled Jerusalem from ancient times to modern, Christians and Jews lived in Jerusalem peacefully. This happened for centuries. Now we have a different group of people in power of Jerusalem and we got problems all the time there. You can make the argument that the Muslims just doing all the bombing there from hate or just they can’t live under Jewish rule in Israel.
Say you had a piece of land from your father’s father. Govt comes and takes land from you and gives it to some other people who you know.
So what would you if your next door neighbor (the new people) start moving his/her fence over more and more to use more of what land is left to you? “Your not using it”. So you tell them to stop, but they don’t and the govt has their back in this matter. You are now occupied. They keep inching more and more… You better not get mad!! Don’t be committing no terrorist acts!

I say England should have kept the land and open it up and a holy land to all three faiths. No ownership of this land in the form of resources or political gain. Just let it be a free open country managed primarily by England and any other countries who wish to donate funds to it. People of the three faiths can come to Jerusalem, The city of peace.
But on my last note, it does belong to the Muslims, just like the Americas belonged to the native Americans.

The US said, "Let's worry about us first" Yeah, tell the men still sitting at the bottom of Pearl Harbor that. Pulling into ourselves has never worked, and will not work now.
You know, Roosevelt knew of the Japanese attack and let it happen. We have intelligence who know how the game works. Our govt know these thing before they happen. I’m sure most will disagree with me, especially about sept.11. I will say that our govt., if they wanted to, could have easily stopped the WTC bombings. WTC isn’t the cause of our recession, if you remember; we were basically there before 9/11. Ask any economist. Everyone got this nice $600. tax refund destroying the 8 year work of the previous president and taking the economy in a an interesting position. WTC is a good blame though.
So no, our govt is aware of what’s going on. We not only have military bases in every country but intelligence planted all over the world. Our govt knows what’s going on.

Good points PAC

I don't want to sound antisemetic but the reason the US supports Israel is we have a good sized Jewish population and they have both economic and policical power. Muslims in this country have neither. So we support the minority, if you compared the amount of muslims in the middle east to the number of jews i am sure the numbers would be startling. probably worse if u compared globally. I even believe that there far more muslims in the US than Jewish people but once again no money no political power.

Keep in mind we are a democratic country.......kind of.

Don't get me wrong I am a Gulf war vet and fought Saddam with enthusiasm. But in my travels in the Navy I got to see many other cultures and these experiences opened my mind to others beliefs. I think all terrorists should be subject to there own Codes

"You want to die for your cause? gimme a sec to reload Ill be happy to help":guns: :eek:

PacMan, you_know, you would make an unbelievable politician. You have the art of Filibuster down to a perfect science...I have never seen so many thoughts without focus in one place. Do you ever stop and try to read the crap you spit out? I don’t intend to offend; I just want you to get to a point without all of the fluff. Get to the point man!

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Originally posted by goinpostal
Good points PAC

I don't want to sound antisemetic but the reason the US supports Israel is we have a good sized Jewish population and they have both economic and policical power.

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Hell ya man. Adam Weishaupts had a great run impersonating George Washington after he died. ;)

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Keep in mind we are a democratic country.......kind of.

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We're a democratic republic. The theory is that true democracy is akin to mob rules. I personally believe that that is true. The beauty of the US today is that freedom is based on money. As such, the harder you work, the more freedom you have. People like to debate what real freedom is but if you enjoy the pleasures of modern society you need cash. The problem begins when you make cash solely by using cash and don't contrbute anything to society. ..but that's another topic.

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Don't get me wrong I am a Gulf war vet and fought Saddam with enthusiasm. But in my travels in the Navy I got to see many other cultures and these experiences opened my mind to others beliefs. I think all terrorists should be subject to there own Codes

"You want to die for your cause? gimme a sec to reload Ill be happy to help":guns: :eek:

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Sincerely, thank you for your effort in the Gulf (tips hat). Most people will be lucky enough to never see a dead body let alone the atrocites of war. Those who do can never see the world in quite the same way do they?

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Originally posted by Ya_know
... Do you ever stop and try to read the crap you spit out? I don’t intend to offend...

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:confused: :confused: :confused:

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Originally posted by Ya_know
I have never seen so many thoughts without focus in one place.

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You obviously didn't read my post then! :D

I think his basic point is that openly bashing all Muslims ages 17-40 isn't helping solve the problem. Stereotyping in general is bad and is unfair. That's about as focused as I can get, so that's all I got to say about that.

This is in no way an attempt to justify all that we are talking about here..but the battle with the muslim world has been going on forever..heres a bit of a papal letter:
"Although, O sons of God, you have promised more firmly than ever to keep the peace among yourselves and to preserve the rights of the church, there remains still an important work for you to do. Freshly quickened by the divine correction, you must apply the strength of your righteousness to another matter which concerns you as well as God. For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire. If you permit them to continue thus for awhile with impurity, the faithful of God will be much more widely attacked by them. On this account I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.

"All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested. O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion! Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor. Behold! on this side will be the sorrowful and poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends. Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let hem eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide."

this was from 1035 A>D>
a link here:http://orb.rhodes.edu/encyclop/relig...ade_Intro.html

Brilliant post PAC.

So from I gather from your post then, PAC, is that we should blame our government for the world hating Isreal and Jews. We should also blame our government for Pearl Harbor, we wanted a war, so they let those boys die. Then we should also blame our government for everyone hating us, we should accept that it is our fault that no one will talk, or that they will stand by what they say. Everything would be fine if we just sat down and talked things over. And that Saddam and the others over there are just misunderstood, and that we are the evil ones in the world.

Sorry, I don't see things that way, and thankfully those in charge do not either. The world isn't peachy, the world isn't civilized. Sometimes violence is the only answer, and sometimes might just happens to actually make right. One of the problems in the world(esp the US) is that everyone wants everything so sugar coated and so easy that they have in the process put on blinders that have handicapped them from seeing what cold hard truths there really are in this life.

But this is all just my opinion.

I dont wish anyone to see some of things i have seen, but i feel it has made me a better person. I wish all those who encourage war but havent experienced it would get a taste of what its like. Im sure if the gung ho non participants could look in the face of a mangled 18 yo fellow countryman they would think twice about encouraging war. Its not Rambo people on both sides die. your enemy also has children and a mother and friends. War is necessary sometimes but should always be entered into cautiosly and responsibly.

Enough of my preaching sorry to sound morbid

IMHO if you are pro war u better be on your way to sign up for it, the US Military takes 18-35yo so only old farts have an excuse(im almost 35). If I felt strongly enough i would go back but even with all thats happened Im not convinced yet.


:D :D :D

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Originally posted by goinpostal
Im no history expert but my understanding is the following:

After the Holocost in WWII the US and other countrys decided to give the Jewish a home land and israel was created or given to them it used to be called Palestine ie Palesteniens.
basically the muslims had thier land taken away and and it was given to someone else who i dont think they liked to begin with. Both religeons have Holy places in israel but they are now in possesion of only one govt which is not muslim.

We support Israel and defend them so by association we are an enemy.

As i said im no expert this is just my understanding of some history if I am wrong please feel free to correct me.

:D :D :D

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Damn there's a lot of posts since I’ve looked in on this topic that seems to be all over the place. Let me correct your history.

Goinpostal - I'm correcting you.

The British owned the lands where Israel now is. The Palestinian government had been non-existent for years and years. The Jews bought this land and moved there as it's their holy land. The fought a war against the British to be a sovereign nation and I think the US was the 1st to recognize them. Since then we have backed them with weapons and medicine and whatever they have needed.

The Palestinians are really Arabs who have adopted the moniker of Palestinians as it makes people think that they once had a thriving country before Israel was a nation. This isn't true in the slightest way. The Jews and the Arabs live in proximity to each other and peaceably for the most part. It is Hezbulah (sic?) that has launched a terror campaign against the Jews and continues to bomb and kill to this day. thousands of Israelis have died and they show remarkable restraint in the face of this IMHO. They could easily wipe the terrorist leadership out should they choose.

They do not do so for several reasons I do not understand fully. One thing to note is that they are constantly in negotiation with Arafat and those who would call themselves Palestinian. From what I understand - the Jews have offered several, I don't know, treaties?, pacts, whatever and it is continually the Palestinians who walk away from the tables at the critical moment or a few (well a dozen) bombs explode somewhere causing Israel to adopt a more hardline stance.

When the Arabs elect moderates into office who support living in peace, they get assassinated.

What you are looking at is a group who do not want to reach a peaceable solution. They want 1 thing and it is to drive the Jews out of Israel. You are dealing with racism and hatred and reason has failed time and time again but is continually pursued due to pressure from well meaning folks who think that you can talk out problems with everyone. The terrorists are driven by men who want power and use religion as a veil to get troops for their war.

So, for those who want talks, the two sides have been talking for years and nothing has come from it and never will and it's not because of the USA or Israel or whoever else we want to blame for the problems of the region.

Not too many people are actually pro war. They're anti death. It's simple. Extremists are locked into one belief. The belief may be just, or it may be wrong. The guy who is Pro-life has the right idea, the guy who guns down an abortion clinic is a sick bastard who should be either thrown in jail for the rest of his life or excecuted depending on the state. That is intolerable behavior.

The guy who hates Americans is free (in this country) to his opinion. The guy who flies an airplane into buildings that kills innocent people and children, the guy who told him to do it, the guys who pay him and his thug partners, and the guys who gives them a safe place to live knowing full well what they stand for and what they will do need to be stopped from doing more damage by any means neccessary.

Innocent people die. The difference is that the Extremists do it intentionally without exploring other options because they don't care.

And I'm sorry, but it I see an arab man and a man of another nationality at an airport, I am going to be suspicious of the arab man. It's sad, maybe it's wrong, but it's a$$holes like the muslim extremists that have made me feel that way. I can't just ignore everything that's going on in the world because someone's 'feelings might get hurt'. That's just assinine (sp?).

And as far as us preventing this from happening? It's never happened before! How would we know 100% how to stop it? Shoot down a plane full of innocent Americans when we have absolutely no reason to believe the plane is going to crash into a building? Stop the terrorists at the airport for acting suspicious? But, if we do that, we might accidentally stop the wrong person. Then we would be considered racist bigots. Give me a break.

Very educational as i said i am no expert but wasnt there a palestine in the past may be a long time ago but im pretty sure there was a country at one time.found it!! here is a link

this might help everyone this explains alot

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

enjoy the read

:D :D :D

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Pac and a whole buncha people wrote
What should Isreal do? And as their ally, do we not help them, do we not understand what is happening as we have hosted many, many talks between both sides?

goinpostal answered it..
After the Holocost in WWII the US and other countrys decided to give the Jewish a home land and israel was created or given to them it used to be called Palestine ie Palesteniens.
basically the muslims had thier land taken away and and it was given to someone else who i dont think they liked to begin with. Both religeons have Holy places in israel but they are now in possesion of only one govt which is not muslim.
We support Israel and defend them so by association we are an enemy.

As i said im no expert this is just my understanding of some history if I am wrong please feel free to correct me.


1948, England gave the Jews Israel. They hold Jerusalem (city of peace) which is scared to Jews, Christians and Muslims. After years of being subjected to the holocaust all through our school life, we have developed this subconscious sympathy for the Jews. Now don’t get me wrong here now, it was a tragedy what they went through, but they are a few compared to what poor people are subjected to around the world, many of which is funded by our govt. Obviously, these continuous holocausts of other groups of people are unfamiliar to us cause our media or govt has decided they are not important. I mean Kosovo was finally covered after the US decided it was in their interest to stop the genocide being committed over there. I mean if you do your research (if you have the interest to do it), you can find a lot of sickening events going on with many disfavored groups.
Jerusalem was last held by the Autumn Empire. Briton took it from them and then gave it to the Jews. So lets Mexico take Arizona and give it to say Panama cause they felt sorry for them..(I’m sure I’ll get ppl saying this is not a good analogy again )
So why didn’t England keep it? It is the holiest site for Christians.
When Muslims ruled Jerusalem from ancient times to modern, Christians and Jews lived in Jerusalem peacefully. This happened for centuries. Now we have a different group of people in power of Jerusalem and we got problems all the time there. You can make the argument that the Muslims just doing all the bombing there from hate or just they can’t live under Jewish rule in Israel.
Say you had a piece of land from your father’s father. Govt comes and takes land from you and gives it to some other people who you know.
So what would you if your next door neighbor (the new people) start moving his/her fence over more and more to use more of what land is left to you? “Your not using it”. So you tell them to stop, but they don’t and the govt has their back in this matter. You are now occupied. They keep inching more and more… You better not get mad!! Don’t be committing no terrorist acts!

I say England should have kept the land and open it up and a holy land to all three faiths. No ownership of this land in the form of resources or political gain. Just let it be a free open country managed primarily by England and any other countries who wish to donate funds to it. People of the three faiths can come to Jerusalem, The city of peace.
But on my last note, it does belong to the Muslims, just like the Americas belonged to the native Americans.

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The Jews booted the Brits out to have their own nation and I think you mean Ottoman Empire. The land was bought and paid for then the nation fought for.

I can and have made the argument that it is the side of the table that happen to be muslim that create most of the problems. Until I hear someone provide decent evidence that states the contrary, I will be of that opinion.

As for a neighbor taking your land as an example. imagine your neighbors ganging up on you, trying to take your land and kill your family and then whining when you push them back and take some of their land. You now have an accurate description of what is happening. Israel has not given back all land taken in wars with it's neighbors because of the threat they pose to them and the multiple examples of aggression from them.

In reference to keeping the holy sites open - well Israel does a great job of that. I doubt that folowers of other faiths besides the muslim religion would be allowed in should the plaestinians rule the area. If you are looking of religious tolerance I would recomend looking into the dynamiting of the ancient buddhist statues in afghanistan. A fine example of religious tolerance.

I see that you really want to side with the little guy here and want to oppose any argument that supports the USA or it's allies. I understand and did feel the same way at one time. I saw your reply earlier and do not have any lack of respect for you because you hold a different opinion. I do feel that you are ill informed and are running more off of emption than anything else, however.;)

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Originally posted by goinpostal
Very educational as i said i am no expert but wasnt there a palestine in the past may be a long time ago but im pretty sure there was a country at one time.found it!! here is a link

this might help everyone this explains alot

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

enjoy the read

:D :D :D

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I don't think I said that they were never a nation. I agree that they were. Just not for a long time - since before the Ottoman Empire. It's kind of like Pennsylvania complaining that they are oppressed by the American government and stating that they were really Brittish.

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Originally posted by meatwad
Not too many people are actually pro war. They're anti death. It's simple. Extremists are locked into one belief. The belief may be just, or it may be wrong. The guy who is Pro-life has the right idea, the guy who guns down an abortion clinic is a sick bastard who should be either thrown in jail for the rest of his life or excecuted depending on the state. That is intolerable behavior.

The guy who hates Americans is free (in this country) to his opinion. The guy who flies an airplane into buildings that kills innocent people and children, the guy who told him to do it, the guys who pay him and his thug partners, and the guys who gives them a safe place to live knowing full well what they stand for and what they will do need to be stopped from doing more damage by any means neccessary.

Innocent people die. The difference is that the Extremists do it intentionally without exploring other options because they don't care.

And I'm sorry, but it I see an arab man and a man of another nationality at an airport, I am going to be suspicious of the arab man. It's sad, maybe it's wrong, but it's a$$holes like the muslim extremists that have made me feel that way. I can't just ignore everything that's going on in the world because someone's 'feelings might get hurt'. That's just assinine (sp?).

And as far as us preventing this from happening? It's never happened before! How would we know 100% how to stop it? Shoot down a plane full of innocent Americans when we have absolutely no reason to believe the plane is going to crash into a building? Stop the terrorists at the airport for acting suspicious? But, if we do that, we might accidentally stop the wrong person. Then we would be considered racist bigots. Give me a break.

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Good analogies there mr. aqua teen hunger force agent.

Thank you ILTU, I appreciate that. :D

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Originally posted by meatwad
Thank you ILTU, I appreciate that. :D

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;) :D

Good avatar too.

Hey, I just posted that b/c I thought it was funny... Glad to see it has spawned such wonderful conversation though...

The reason so many other countries hate us is our bully of the playground foreign policy. You would hate America too if you lived in some of these places that we use for our own gain, then turn around and bomb (i.e. IRAQ)- we were best buds with Saddam when IRAN was a scarier threat). We deserve all the terrorist attacks we get. Sorry but we kill out of greed and lust for money; just ask a Native American (IF YOU CAN FIND ONE!) Everyone acts so surprised and pi55ed off when it happens to us, well I say we had it coming. It blows that innocent Americans had to die, but that is a drop in the bucket compares to all the innocent peoplt that have died to make us richer and more powerful... The US is a hypocritical killing machine run by the Corporations that have come to power since the industrial revolution.

But personally, I think its cool if we kill innocent people around the clock, around the world; so long as my military can protect my borders and my gas stays affordable. Its a dog-eat-dog world out there, might as well enjoy living in the richest, most powerful empire in history. I consider myself lucky to have been born here, and I am proud to call myself an American.

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Originally posted by Stanley_Kubrick
Hey, I just posted that b/c I thought it was funny... Glad to see it has spawned such wonderful conversation though...

The reason so many other countries hate us is our bully of the playground foreign policy. You would hate America too if you lived in some of these places that we use for our own gain, then turn around and bomb (i.e. IRAQ)- we were best buds with Saddam when IRAN was a scarier threat). We deserve all the terrorist attacks we get. Sorry but we kill out of greed and lust for money; just ask a Native American (IF YOU CAN FIND ONE!) Everyone acts so surprised and pi55ed off when it happens to us, well I say we had it coming. It blows that innocent Americans had to die, but that is a drop in the bucket compares to all the innocent peoplt that have died to make us richer and more powerful... The US is a hypocritical killing machine run by the Corporations that have come to power since the industrial revolution.

But personally, I think its cool if we kill innocent people around the clock, around the world; so long as my military can protect my borders and my gas stays affordable. Its a dog-eat-dog world out there, might as well enjoy living in the richest, most powerful empire n history. I consider myself luck to have been born here, and I am proud to call myself an American.

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Dude... You're just damn weird. You know that, right? :D

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Originally posted by Stanley_Kubrick
Hey, I just posted that b/c I thought it was funny... Glad to see it has spawned such wonderful conversation though...

The reason so many other countries hate us is our bully of the playground foreign policy. You would hate America too if you lived in some of these places that we use for our own gain, then turn around and bomb (i.e. IRAQ)- we were best buds with Saddam when IRAN was a scarier threat). We deserve all the terrorist attacks we get. Sorry but we kill out of greed and lust for money; just ask a Native American (IF YOU CAN FIND ONE!) Everyone acts so surprised and pi55ed off when it happens to us, well I say we had it coming. It blows that innocent Americans had to die, but that is a drop in the bucket compares to all the innocent peoplt that have died to make us richer and more powerful... The US is a hypocritical killing machine run by the Corporations that have come to power since the industrial revolution.

But personally, I think its cool if we kill innocent people around the clock, around the world; so long as my military can protect my borders and my gas stays affordable. Its a dog-eat-dog world out there, might as well enjoy living in the richest, most powerful empire n history. I consider myself luck to have been born here, and I am proud to call myself an American.

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You can't argue with logic. I lean toward forgiving the US/CIA/FBI in the name of greater freedom for all in the end but if the world ever comes under a single ruler, even if it's the US, I think you can kiss freedom goodbye. Threre's a brave new world somewhere waiting to pounce on us.

Exactly..Silencio..it's either Christians with guns or Muslims with guns..don't matter in the end who wins..they are both imperialist and will end up costing us democracy

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Originally posted by geoscomp
Exactly..Silencio..it's either Christians with guns or Muslims with guns..don't matter in the end who wins..they are both imperialist and will end up costing us democracy

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Wisdom. (Unfortunately.)

So clearly what we need is...

Cows With Guns!

Teh cleetus is changing his stance...

KILL THEM ALL. If anyone disagrees with the US and her closest allies, they are an enemy. The enemies must be destroyed then conquered. We will kill the horses and ride off on the women. Soon, when the time is ripe, the Cleetus will take control and be your Ceasar. All HAIL CEASAR CLEETUS!!!!

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We deserve all the terrorist attacks we get. Sorry but we kill out of greed and lust for money; just ask a Native American (IF YOU CAN FIND ONE!) Everyone acts so surprised and pi55ed off when it happens to us, well I say we had it coming

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That's a crock of bull. You can argue all that you want about how the US government makes stupid selfish decisions, but considering how many countries we support with aid and money around the world we do a lot of damn good too. Don't try telling me that the people in those three buildings and those four planes deserved to die because the US deserved to get attacked by a bunch of sick @$$holes. You can't seperate the two. A terrorist attacks innocent people to frighten other innocent people. You don't seem to mind living here.

And yet we were terrorists to the British Empire not so long ago..
Ceasar Cleetus..hmmmm anything like a ceasar salad?

Of course thos people didn't deserve what happened to them. I don't think anyone here thinks they did.

What I keep thinking about though..is this: 15 of the 19 people that took over those planes were not from Iraq or Afghanistan, but were from Saudi Arabia..when do we attack them? As far as the weapons of mass destruction thing..North Korea is much farther ahead of anything Iraq has. If you remember, the trigger event that got us into the Gulf War was the invasion of Kuwait and the torching of the oil wells..nothing guaranteed to p*** off a Texas Oilman more than that..My father used to tell me stories of the destroyer he was on doing surveillance work in French Indo-China (then to become VietNam) prior to the uprising there..and the people from Standard Oil that would come aboard ship..then I think about the number of names on that wall in Washington and I start to wonder about the true motivation to what we are doing and how we are doing it.

Wouldn't have to worry about oil if we just just tapped our own. But somebody seems to think that if we cut down a couple of trees in Alaska, the world is going to end. Go figure.

Wouldn't have to worry about it too much if we made more fuel efficient cars either...but then the US oil companies wouldn't be making as much money..actually, our reserves are higher now than they have been for quite a while..and now we aren't sending fuel oil to N Korea. Wonder how much that nice, big, undefended, Alaskan pipeline looks like a terrorist target?

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Originally posted by Cleetus
Teh cleetus is changing his stance...

Soon, when the time is ripe, the Cleetus will take control and be your Ceasar. All HAIL CEASAR CLEETUS!!!!

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Wow can you imagine the size of that trailer home. ;)

More like CEASAR"TOSSIN THE SALAD" CLEETUS!!!!

Then would it be called The White Trash House?

LOL

(JK Cleetus)

:D :D :D

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Wouldn't have to worry about it too much if we made more fuel efficient cars either

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Wouldn't have to worry about inefficient cars if the people that designed the fuel efficient ones didn't sell out to the blood thirsty corporations.

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Originally posted by meatwad
Wouldn't have to worry about inefficient cars if the people that designed the fuel efficient ones didn't sell out to the blood thirsty corporations.

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Or get squashed underfoot by them...

Define squashed?

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Originally posted by techguy13
Wow can you imagine the size of that trailer home. ;)

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You might have seen a double wide, you might have heard of a triple wide, but I will rule from a quadruple wide baby!!!!

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Originally posted by geoscomp
Wouldn't have to worry about it too much if we made more fuel efficient cars either...but then the US oil companies wouldn't be making as much money..actually, our reserves are higher now than they have been for quite a while..and now we aren't sending fuel oil to N Korea. Wonder how much that nice, big, undefended, Alaskan pipeline looks like a terrorist target?

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Hit the nail on the head there. If we had fuel efficient vehicles and got rid of sports cars, trucks and SUV's then we might not be so damn dependant upon oil. The big rigs and the power companies would still need fuel but the large amount of the fuel goes toward personal transportation.

Remove the dependance upon oil and remove any interest in the region and so much of the tension that the world has today. But, with cheap oil - what is the incentive? I honestly don't see "energy" as an issue that is covered at all in the media or one that comes to the forefront in any political discussion - ever. In our future - the need to cheap, clean energy will become the biggest problem facing mankind besides the need for food and water for the world burgeoning population yet we continue to ignore the future problems. Always we look to the now and forget the future and rely on the next generation to fix the problems we create today.

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Originally posted by meatwad
Define squashed?

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I'll use an analogy.

Someone was once quoted as saying "Doing business with Microsoft is like going on a date with Mike Tyson."

Imagine the following scenario:

Big Oil Businessman (BOB for short): Hey, dude, nice electric car design. I'll buy it off you.

Small Inventor GuY (SIGY): No. You won't produce it, you'll shelve it and keep destroying the environment.

BOB: You're exactly right. How's ten million dollars sound for all of your patents?

SIGY: Hmmm... I'm sorta in this for the Earth, not the cash...

BOB: Or you could try to market your car. I'm sure that all of my industry business partners will cooperate to the fullest in making sure your company is successful. (barely controlled sniggering.)

SIGY: Give me the damn cheque.

PacMan, you_know, you would make an unbelievable politician. You have the art of Filibuster down to a perfect science...I have never seen so many thoughts without focus in one place. Do you ever stop and try to read the crap you spit out? I don’t intend to offend; I just want you to get to a point without all of the fluff. Get to the point man!
That’s probably the worst insult I have received, calling me a great politician (they are probably the one people I truly hate). If you distrust and dislike them, then quit expecting others around the world to trust and like them. I understand why you don’t see my point. You don’t want to listen with an open mind (I’m 100% sure you will disagree with me when I say thins, proving my point). Yeah, I might use examples and go into some of mytheories on what the solution may be, but it is not “filibuster”. Obviously, you see my post as filibusters so there is no productive outcome for me to go on further replying to you. But I will try to defend myself. Quote the parts of my replies which have you found filibusterous and I will give you explanations. But all my explanations will always be filibusters to you. Oh, I don’t intend to offend.
What, electronic cars? Was that filibusterous? That’s a great solution to our oil problems. Again, the billionaire oil companies will continue to “seduce” the govt. in not funding this research. Seduce is too good of a noble word to use in this case. Why even Bush was/is in the Oil game. You say the words out of my mouth are full of crap; alright, so quote me and I’ll put your “crap” to rest!

Sorry, I don't see things that way, and thankfully those in charge do not either. The world isn't peachy, the world isn't civilized. Sometimes violence is the only answer, and sometimes might just happens to actually make right. One of the problems in the world(esp the US) is that everyone wants everything so sugar coated and so easy that they have in the process put on blinders that have handicapped them from seeing what cold hard truths there really are in this life.

But this is all just my opinion.
I agree, sometimes one has to fight back, but this not one of them (know everyone will disagree with me on this one). To the average people in US, this is about revenge. This is revenge but not justice. You may think it’s about justice, but most don’t know what justice is. What is your basis of justice? What moral normative theory do you live by? Divine command? And how accurate is your divine command that it is so full of contradictions? Most don’t know what justice is, they know what their normative relative and subjective views of justice is but not what Justice is. It differs from person to person. Even the dictionary can’t define justice:
Justice: 1. The quality of being just; fairness. 2. The principle of moral rightness; equity. 3. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness. 4. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.
They always use the word “just” in defining justice. In the War in Afghanistan, there has been more murdered bodes added to the victims of 9/11. (Oh no.. how dare PacMan compare the dead of Afghanis with Americans! Damn that bastard is nuts!!) This is not justice! But hey, it makes you feel better knowing we are bombing some Arabs.
Now I said the average person in US. Then you got nuts like me, the threat to the puppet masters who can’t seem accept what you would call the “obvious”. Who are always in question of their superior. Then you got the puppet masters who use the average and sway their thinking for their own interests. Truly, the world isn’t peachy or civilized.

All right, this is your solution, violence, then do something about it. This is your opinion, then like goinpostal said, IMHO if you are pro war u better be on your way to sign up for it, the US Military takes 18-35yo so only old farts have an excuse(im almost 35).
What I propose (a balanced negotiated settlement), I am willing to do, what you propose are you willing to do?


geoscomp
The Crusades hugh? Have you taken Basic western civilization 101 course yet? The crusades were vicious and violent. Constantinople (Byzantine Empire who were Christians) would not open their gates to the crusaders when they arrived there with less than half their army. During their trip to the holy land, they would practice massacring Jewish villages in preparation of the Muslims. There are reports of them even eating their victims, (not sure if this was cause the lack of food, but most likely it was). The Pope who wrote this letter didn’t even fight in the war (but what European leader did unless they were the terrorist, ie. William Wallace, Joan of Arc etc. against the Brits. All this can be learned at your local university, West Civ 101. And they are fairly balanced.


And I'm sorry, but it I see an arab man and a man of another nationality at an airport, I am going to be suspicious of the arab man. It's sad, maybe it's wrong, but it's a$$holes like the muslim extremists that have made me feel that way. I can't just ignore everything that's going on in the world because someone's 'feelings might get hurt'. That's just assinine (sp?).
Yes, this is a feeling I think all of us feel. We don’t care about hurting someone’s feeling at this point when our safety, our security, our lives are concerned. So when you see a young white male (Timothy McVeigh) in say a governmental building with a daycare, do you become suspicious? Why not? Cause he’s white? He grew up in this country so he knows our “values” or what have you? We are in a state of alert and the people, not the government is at a state of confusion.
A skilled boxer doesn’t defeat his opponent with bruit power and anger; he fights him with the sharpness of wit. (here I go “filibustering” again right?)

wtf? message too long? :eek: cut, cut, paste, paste.

I think you mean Ottoman Empire.
Thanks for the correction. :)

I do feel that you are ill informed and are running more off of emption than anything else, however.
Ill informed? In some areas, maybe. But the areas where I am, I do my part and try to inform myself of both sides before I pass judgment. I see it more as we just see situations differently. Don’t be so hasty to pass judgment on my “inform” or intellect based on the error of my spelling. You said something about you once thinking the way I do or something of that nature and now you have elevated above my perception, viewpoint, which almost seems as if you have surpassed my intellect. Well, it’s not hard to surpass my intellect as most of you may agree but perception can be played with like chess. You have your perceptions and I have mine, but in information concerning this topic, I beg to differ with my lack of information.

So now, may I kindly ask you to inform me so I can achieve and elevate to your perception? Shed light to me, what I am so blind to see.



Wouldn't have to worry about oil if we just just tapped our own. But somebody seems to think that if we cut down a couple of trees in Alaska, the world is going to end. Go figure.
Have you considered that we may be saving our oil for last?


Wonder how much that nice, big, undefended, Alaskan pipeline looks like a terrorist target?
Slow down now, shouldn’t talk about things like that. Some terrorist may hear you..

Straight to the point!
The richer one is, the greedier and selfish he becomes. They look down on the poor as if they are a lower class. The upper, middle, and lower class. This is a natural selfishness of most humanity.
Most here have always had a hate for Arabs and the media has always been drenching out the flame with gasoline. This is why the pen is mightier than the sword. You wanna be brave and fly vast distances away from the enemy and kill him by the push of a button, then quit talking about killing these Arabs and go do it! This is your philosophy of how to advance as a human species, then “Stop singing and start swinging” (Malcolm X). You let people like goinpostal do all the fighting and you sit behind the protection of you computer talking about how we need to take them out. Ask the Vietnam veteran on the streets begging with their “will work for food” what they think of their govt. They love their country as most of us do, but what about the govt? Are the Nam veterans praised for they bravery (they went through true bravery, not like today in the safety of a fighter jet) for fighting for their country, trusting their government that the war was just. We in the states live off their misery but our companies and firms don’t even offer them a job. It’s our govt.’s duty to take care of them, am I wrong? The govt. made a mistake letting reporters expose the reality of the Vietnam War, trust me, they will never make that mistake again.

So all of you who are pro-war, do you have the courage to be in the infantry? Are the outcomes worth it? Will a damn useless war against some terrorist solve our problems? This seems to be very difficult for many people to understand. You remember when you were in school and you were about to get in a fight? If you even thought about talking to the guy your about to fight, the crowed around you would laugh at you. You had to be the guy sticking up for yourself and start throwing your fist. The instigators (the crowed) prevented you from negotiation. Now if you and he were all alone, you may try to talk with him. But if he hits you, you defend yourself (like what you claim we are doing with terrorist). But the fact is, we are the bully to all the kids in the playground. We have been “punking” all these kids. How dare they fight back! Than damn South American kid never fought back. Or that South African. Till that one kid, that little kid, who has no fear of death comes up and hits us right in the nose making us bleed! Now we are mad! Now lets go kill that lil kid, HOW DARE HE!!! Trust me, this lil kid is stronger than you think he is. Bush made a stupid mistake calling it a crusade at first. The real intelligence behind the idiot Bush stopped him from making that mistake and recalling himself. Calling it a Crusade will invoke Muslims to side with Usama and fight us to the death. Don’t think our Hydro bombs and advanced weapons can stop any people. When a man has nothing to lose, he is a very dangerous man. If you want to go kill him, the quit sitting around complaining and protect my so-called freedom!


This is taking up to much of my H.W time and damn finals are coming up :sad: . If you all wanna keep going on with this, I don’t care. Think what you want to and believe what you want to, if it makes you feel better. Even if it may not be the truth.

Take it eazy... and play some pacman!

I would consider the need for keeping airplanes out of office buildings a little higher than getting a big mac twenty years from now. :D

AMEN Brother


Pacman say
So all of you who are pro-war, do you have the courage to be in the infantry? Are the outcomes worth it? Will a damn useless war against some terrorist solve our problems? This seems to be very difficult for many people to understand


from my earlier post
IMHO if you are pro war u better be on your way to sign up for it, the US Military takes 18-35yo so only old farts have an excuse(im almost 35). If I felt strongly enough i would go back but even with all thats happened Im not convinced yet.

WAR SUX! unless u can sit in your lazy-boy and flip to CNN during commercial breaks while watching the Simpsons to check the body count. Which is what most people will be doing if we go to war.

;)