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It doesnt go as bad as that, the tax rate goes up as you earn more but its a tax slab (bracket) so at the highest level i think one would pay about 50%, each country is different, and when youre rich things like donations and charity helps to reduce the amount of tax you pay.
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Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
I would be willing to bet that a pretty good percentage of people that actually need that help do not qualify for it, and that in order to qualify you have to either be a deadbeat or be down on your luck for a really really long time.
I went thru a year and a half where I couldn't find a decent paying job in my field. I worked a menial job instead just to make ends meet as best I could. It was a cold winter and my gas bills were 220-320 dollars per month. The job I was working worked out to about 17K per year. My winter gas bills alone were close to 2000 for only six months. Throw in everything else that is required to survive and you're looking at someone in dire need of help.
The amount of assistance I qualified for was ZERO. Everything I applied for was based on my last full year's tax returns income level which put me over the limit.
The following year I qualified for the programs but by that time I was working again and making a pretty good salary. I didn't apply for the assistance again because I didn't feel it was fair to take money I didn't need anymore. Maybe I should have since I'm still paying off credit card bills that I had to run up, but it didn't seem right to me.
Also conceded: I shouldn't have called you a world class idiot. My apologies.
I'd like to hear from the Brits on the tax issue. Didn't you used to have a tax bracket that had like a 95% income tax?
Hi there,
Makes me wonder why all the rich do with that kind of money? Sure, they got everything, but come on. Too much is just too much.
If all the rich spend their money on something good, then this world would be a far better place.
Do you really need like 5 sport cars? A 50 rooms huge house for one single person? Why do you need all that golf space? Why eating all those fancy restaurants? All that fashion (and some of then are really ugly) clothes? Geez...
Ju Leon...
OK just let me say this to get it off my chest...DUH!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno_gn
That feels better. Ummm Ju Leon when a rich person does buy 5 cars, eat at fancy eateries, buys fancy clothes and purchases a big house where do you rekkin' that money they spent goes??? Now think about it real hard I know you can. Come on now you can do it. Oh OK I'll tell ya it goes into the auto salesmans hand, the auto dealership, the eatery, the waitress, the cook, the busboy, the real estate agent, the Home Depot Clerk, the clothing store owner, the salesperson and the stockperson. All of that worthless spending helping to pay those worthless wages. Tisk, tisk, tisk it's a crime I tell ya! :butt:
Major's right, what a rich person does with their money is their right, maybe having 5 cars seems too much to us, but to the really poor, even having A car is too much. Its all relative.ITs better when rich people spend all their money, because it gets into the economy again and well its a cycle.
I don't begrudge anyone eating out at a fancy restaurant or buying 5 cars . If you want to help the economy giving the rich a tax cut is not worth it. First off most of the rich in the top two percent didn't use the money to buy 5 cars. They had the money for that in the first place. As to eating at fancy restaurant they could also do that before the tax cuts. While I am sure some people did buy more cars and eat out more often a huge amount of that money was invested. A lot of it went into government securities. In other words the government borrowed money to give to rich people. Then they took that money and loaned it to the government. Which in turn is giving it back to rich who will buy more government securities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Kong
Looking at the issues of eating out and buying clothes I ask how only two percent of the people can effectively stimulate demand. Who would by more clothes with a tax break. 5,000 middle class families who otherwise couldn't afford more clothes or 100 rich people? And the two percent would have to eat out 300 times a day each to equal what 5,000 middle class people would eat.
Plus the money for the middle class would go to buy things they need like health insurance, college tuitions, etc that not only benefit the economy and themselves but America as a whole. Healthier people, better educated people will eventually be more productive.
So by rolling back the tax cuts for the rich and therefore lowering interest on the debt more money is available for a larger tax cut for the middle class. Which I have shown would be a real stimulus to the economy and better for America in the long run.
Rich person on hearing he got the tax cut:
"I'm going to invest it"
Middle class person on hearing he got the tax cut:
I'm going to buy some clothes, get that mole checked out, send may daughter to college"
I have to admit this is another thing that weighs on my mind.
Let's look at Bill Gates' $60 000 000 mansion.
Does he really NEED a house that expensive?
Sure it's his money, but do you know how many poor people $60 000 000 could send to school? How long my parents' food bank could afford to operate on such a fund? How many more cops it could put on the street to fight crime? How much research it could buy to cure cancer?
Again, it IS his money and he (theoretically) earned every penny of it... so he has the right to spend it all on left-handed trout gutters if he wants to... but is that a more important right than the right of the homeless to have supper every night?
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Originally Posted by meatwad
That was a very very long time ago under a labour government.
Current taxes work like this
You get the first
£4745 untaxed.... so you remove this figure from what your gross salary is for the year. (this figure is for a standard - there are other breaks for agegroups or other circumstances)
The next £2020 you earn is taxed at 10% for the year - £202
Between £2020 and £31200 you pay 22% tax for the year £6819.56
If you earn £4745 your tax bill is nil
If you earn £6765 your tax bill is £202 a year
If you earn £39,945 your tax bil is £7021.56 a year - works out to about 17.5% over the entire salary.
For every £1 you earn over £39,945 you pay 40 pence in tax - a flat 40% rate.
Other taxes VAT - sales tax to you - 17.5%. Some things are exempt such as childrens clothes and basic food stuffs. Some attract a lower rate of VAT such as electricity.
Then there is national insurance - effectively state pension pot, but it is used for all sorts of things. It's a tad complex - The first £79 a week is tax free, then its 11% of anything you earn up to £610 a week - over £610 you pay 1% of any earnings over that.
In the US we reach the top braket at about the same time. Then its 31 percent. It was 38 percent before Bush.Quote:
Originally Posted by NooNoo
Your vat tax is way higher than ours. We don't add tax until a product is sold to a consumer. Then it varies by state. Vermont is 6 perent, New Hampshire has no sales tax.
Do you have a budget deficit in Britain?
Don't forget State Income taxes! In Arizona it was 28% of Federal. In Virginia, when I was there, it was 33% of Federal. Most Virginia counties also had personal property taxes. Arizona didn't have PPT per se, nor does Alaska. Alaska does not have an income tax (yet) nor a State sales tax though some localities do have a 2% sales tax that is usually capped over a certain amount. Of course what Virginia, Arizona and Alaska have in common (pretty much with everyone else) is property taxes and various user fees and taxes (gasoline, telephone, etc.). Chip in SS, Medicare and Health Insurance (not gov't related) a goodly chunk comes out.
Up here where I work we have it better than our Canadian counterparts (about 30% of the workforce). Oy the paperwork they have to do for the IRS and Canadian IRS (I can't remember what it's called) is frightening. Just about everyone of our Canadian work force has now relocated to the Anchorage/Mat-Su area (2 moved to Fairbanks). I can count on both hands now (12 fingers https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif) the amount of folks who still rotate out to Canada (most are from Vancouver, 1 from Kimberly and 1 from Calgary).
New Hampshire rocks. No sales tax, no income tax. They make up for it in Property Taxes and Luxury Taxes such as snack taxes and meals taxes. I think it's like an 8% tax on ice cream or something.
Bill Gates gives more money than you'll ever see to worthy causes and employs a ridiculous number of people. I have ZERO problem with how much money he has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
The Billions he pours into charities all over the world, is more than most countries want to give. If all rich people gave in the same ratio as he did, the world would definately be a better place.
Gates might have more money but Paul Allen has more toys:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
http://powerandmotoryacht.zeroforum....4/Octopus3.jpg
Paul Allens yacht Octopus. Cost: 200 million dollars. It's 413 feet long. Has a basketball court, 2 helicopters, movie theater, recording studio and numerous other boats on board.
Cost to fill it with gas? 300,000 dollars.
Did I mention that it also has it's own submarine?
Gates does not give because he wants the world to be a better place. Everything that man does is involved in making money. He gives because he gets tax breaks, good public image, and to try to get the DOJ off his back.
He also "gives" a great deal in the style of computers for schools... this isn't a gift, it's a long term investment. A brilliant one, I might add. He gets tax breaks today for a customer base custom designed to want his products in the future... and gets to look good to everybody involved on top of it!
And the money he gives to charity is a tiny drop in the bucket of all the money he makes.
All of this talk of "Do they really need?" Do we really need to eat that apple pie? (hmmm pie...) Do we really need to drink that cola? Do we need to buy comic books or novels? Do we really need to go swimming at the local pool? Do we really need to go hunting for legal game?
We choose to eat that apple pie with the can of cola while reading our comic books or the latest Tom Clancey writings. We decide to go swimming at the local pool after we shoot, gut, and clean the goose.
None of these things are needed to survive (except for maybe hunting depending on where ya live). But we choose to do these things that fall into our budget to bring pleasure and joy into our lives. If they are able to afford it, who are we to judge?
Oops. I goofed. I forgot about State income taxes. Which I am guessing they don't have in Britain?
We have no state taxes as such. We do have council tax which is a tax based on how much your house was worth in 1991- this pays for local education, police, roads etc. It does not collect all that is needed to run the local area. Government then add more to their pot - and each year there is several column inches about how the Government are so unfair by the local councils and just as many from the Government about how the local councils must learn to live within their means.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
I'm glad you know exactly what Gates is thinking. Of course he's going to do things that make or save him money. Regardless of anything else, he's an excellent businessman. But to say that he doesn't want to help people is a pretty assinine assumption on your part.
No one gives away $27 BILLION dollars for a tax break. Bill Gates has stated that he wants to give away the vast majority of his money to charities and has been showing th proof of that in his foundation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
I'm not impressed. When you have the money he does 27 billion is like most of us donating 100.00. It has no affect on his lifestyle, his childrens or his childrens children. It IS a good thing that he is giving it away. But he is still a greedy a*s who earned a lot of it with very underhanded tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by jitBob
I have more respect for the person struggling to make ends meet who gives 10 dollars to charity.
Hmmm...Aren't you the one who claims to be smart in another thread? $27 billion is about half of his current wealth, have you donated half of your income to charity?Quote:
Originally Posted by techs
Naah, techs just makes $200 per week.... :p
You proceed from the false assumption that half of your net worth is the same for a middle class person than for the richest person in the world. Didn't you read what I posted?Quote:
Originally Posted by jitBob
Jesus man, he's given away 27 BILLION DOLLARS! Cut him some slack.Quote:
Originally Posted by techs
I actually created sympathy for Bill Gates? I guess I should tone it down. :devil:Quote:
Originally Posted by meatwad
Well it seems like with all of the Corporation bashing, somebody does something good, but he gets bashed for it anyway because it's a Corporation.Quote:
Originally Posted by techs
Any way you cut it, half your net worth is half your net worth. Half of Mr Gates net worth can do a h3ll of a lot more good than half of yours or mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by techs
Yes, I did read your post.
When I think about it, I actually like that some of the money that I have to spend on his software actually does some good in this world.
I was merely questioning the SCALE of the purchase. Look at jewelry for example. Buying a comic book for $5 as a luxury will give you some pleasure... will buying a rare diamond for $5 million give you a million times as much pleasure? I don't think so, or diamond salespeople would be in a constant state of orgasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediab
On the other hand, buying a box of cereal for someone poor will fill their stomach for a day. Buying a million boxes of cereal for the poor WILL accomplish a million times as much good.
I hadn't seen this information before and actually I AM very impressed with it, even if it does come from a Gates source. Thank you for the clarification.Quote:
Originally Posted by jitBob
You are very welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
So you are saying that how you see things in terms of SCALE is the only way it is? That is your perception of reality. Not the reality for others. What if that comic book was not just a 2.50 cent Spider-Man, but Amazing Fantasy #15 in mint condition (webby will know what I mean)? If it falls into your budget, who are you and who am I to nag about what is done with the money? Nobody has what right to tell people how to spend their money based on how THEY think it should be spent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
Yeah, like promote the idea of handouts.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
Followed soon after by cries of "we have a RIGHT to that free box of cereal."
Handouts prevent people from starving to death.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflyer
You can't eat school books.
But if you prefer, then read the above as saying "instead spend the millions on education and job creation programs instead of jewelry."
Okay? Are we done here now? :thumbs:
Nahhh...this is fun! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
Now when you say "job creation programs", what kind of jobs do you want? Obviously nobody wants to add to the plethora of McDonald's, yet there's so many roadblocks to building new factories.
There's millions WASTED on the current education scheme, why would I want to throw more money at it?
How about throwing it at programs that show documented results?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflyer
There are a LOT of different job creation and education experiments going on in both of our countries. I know they aren't ALL failures because I keep seeing sappy-happy stories in the media about how they work sometimes.
How about jobs in road work, forestry, education, police, or firemen? Jobs that actually do some good, pay decently and help everyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflyer