Your opinion about hackers......

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Danrak:
Its the script kiddies trying to say they are eleet hackers. Somehow changing letters into numbers and capitalizing every other letter is supposed to show that they are smart.</font>

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Jody.


[This message has been edited by jodayo (edited February 08, 2001).]

It`s REAL simple.
Malicious=Bad https://forums.windrivers.com/

Quest for Knowledge without intentional harm=Good https://forums.windrivers.com/
There are lots of benifits from finding "Alternitve" ways of doing things.You just don`t have to trash someones system to do it. Like Labrat mentioned, set up a lab. If you can`t network up a couple of old machines to wreck `em. You shouldn`t be messing around with other people`s stuff.
* * * * Peace * * * *

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Thank you for pressing CTRL-ALT-DEL.... Please try again.

As a network_admin and teacher, I tire of the childish argurments I hear from hackers.
I know of NO legimate reason to violate another person's rights, perogatives after or space.

I caught one of my students in one of our servers last week. He EARNED a zero for the semester and no, I sure as hell didn't apologize.

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David Clark
Lafayette LA

If your a hacking your own system, or a system whith the owners permission. It's called testing network security.

if u do it without permission it's a crime. I think it really come down to that.

I am no hacker, I do from time to time attempt to attack my bosses network, after all I look after it.

as for anger and revenge, I can understand that side of the fence too.

that my point of view any way

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Life is highway, we all begin and end the same way. But everyones journey it unique

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by talltech:
If your a hacking your own system, or a system whith the owners permission. It's called testing network security.

if u do it without permission it's a crime. I think it really come down to that.

I am no hacker, I do from time to time attempt to attack my bosses network, after all I look after it.

as for anger and revenge, I can understand that side of the fence too.

that my point of view any way

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I couldn't have said it better...

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There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by
reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of
them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

I think as a general rule hackers are harmless people but the media hypes them up to look like hardened criminals. Most hackers just want a challenge or what to learn about a network. For the most part they are harmless, but we only hear about the nasty ones. https://forums.windrivers.com/

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He who gives up liberty for security gains neither --Benjamin Franklin

Hackers used to have a reason to hack 'other' computers a long time ago. It was pretty much the only way to increase knowledge of networks and such. Mind you this was back when computers were incredibly expensive and you would reach the limitations of what you could afford personally. These people would extend their own systems to the limits then look for more. They were not of malicious intent and if you actually noticed that your system had been hacked and/or damage had been done then they would consider this a total screwup of the highest order.
Nowadays when computers are almost a commodity item everyone with a new E-Machine and knows how to read a newsgroup considers themselves a hacker! An old school hacker would not have a reason to "hack the web" so to speak as computing power is much less expensive now than then.
It is analogous to (I know I'm gonna get killed, it's the union way of eliminating dissent) todays Unions as opposed to when they actually had a use. Back when Unions first started it was necessary, now they are merely political tools abused at will.

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What's the differance between 'twisted' and 'torqued' anyways?

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SavagePenguin:
When I was younger I had a certain fascination with hacking and the hacking community. It was sort of a big secret club, where the unpopular had power and a sort of prestige. I never did it, but I would have loved to have been a part of them.

A lot of hackers are geeky kids with an inferiority complex who try to make themselves feel powerful by harming others. Also, they gain a sense of acceptance from their hacker friends. Often they can't get peer acceptance in the "real world."

There's also the "hunt and conquer" aspect of it. It's a challenge. It's a big, dangerous (yet safe) puzzle. Kids pit themselves against large corporations, and sometimes win. What a rush.

I think most hackers do it, at least in part, for the sport. I think most also thrive on the empowerment/peer acceptance aspects. Saying that they do it to learn and teach others is simply the best excuse they can come up with.

A minority of hackers are simply viscous. They're techno-bullies who enjoy harassing others.

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Hey Savage,
Where did you get your PHD? https://forums.windrivers.com/ I was one of the popular ones. I helped out the Nerds and "unpopular people" as you put it and protected them from the Jock *******s or Yuppie scumbags that would abuse them. I was kind of like a mix of Judd Nelson, Emilio Esteves and Anthony Michael Hall in Breakfast club so to speak. I followed my own beat per-se. Had a lot of friends. Still do. Well I ended up, back in the early to mid 80's hacked into the school computer in a matter of seconds and messed it up so bad it took them a month to straighten it out. It was the thrill of doing something so simple that took no time or effort at all to see how long it takes for them to straighten it out. I wasn't looking for attention I just loved seeing things break and people panic. Call me sick or twisted fine. I was the original "Bevis" in High School. DESTROY YEAH YEAH HHMM HMMM HHHMMMM HHHMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually fell through the ceiling in High School before Judd Nelson did in Breakfast Club. When we saw it in the movies I stood up and shouted "Hey, They stole that from me". Some guy in the front of the theater stood up and shouted my name and I replied "Hey Dude" and the whole theater just busted out laughing. Now I have grown up and I only destroy when it is necessary. Payback is a bitch I believe the saying goes? Only when it's really necessary though. I had some ******* tech that I used to work with and he thought his sh*t didn't stink and he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well after a few registry modifications and a script or batch file his system was hit, down for the count dead and he couldn't figure out why. He kept cursing Bill Gates for a crappy Operating system. I told him if he would humble himself a bit I would fix it for him but he was too proud and formatted the drive anyway. I have read some of the tech tales in the past and all of you have hacked or phreaked in one way or another. It is a bit annoying when you get hit with a virus but there is so much protection out there from it if you are a good tech and read up on what is out there to protect you against these things then you don't have much to worry about. I have yet to get hit at home with a virus or anything that brings my system down. I once brought home a floppy that had an infected Word Doc but as soon as I put the disk in the drive and clicked it the file was cleaned. Sure you always have to fear some of these things and it is a bit annoying but I don't let it get to me. If you practice good backup measures then you should be OK. I have archives of data on a monthly basis on CD's now because it is so easy and fast and if my system was to get hit with something it is no great loss. I re-format and start again. Well that's all I guess. Just felt I should say we have all done something like this in our past. I'm sure of it so just be prepared and you will be OK.


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If you think I'm standig here as the world goes by. You're thinking like a fool 'cause it's a case of do or die. Out there is a fortune waiting to be had, if you think i'll let it go your mad You've Got Another Thing Coming

I'll fall on the side that it depends on what is done. But all this hacker old school definition vs new school definition gives me a chuckle. Reminds me of the Trekkie vs Trekker debates. Trekkie is the geek and Trekker is the cool ones. Like the media cares one one or another, they're all geeks. https://forums.windrivers.com/


I'm from way back also and my interests was more into providing a service for the fun of it. I don't mean I hacked, I mean I opened up my own local BBS and posted hard to get files and stuff within my interest. I remember the days when you would open up your Atari400 and put in the new GTIA chip to get better graphics. Now I feel old too. https://forums.windrivers.com/

Isn't the original definition of a hacker as "someone who uses his knowledge to increse his knowledge"

I must confess that I am guilty of script kiddying on IRC where I occasionaly use the more agressive features of the Showdown script to blast annoying people off IRC, but I would never intentionaly damage or try to break into any system unless I had been asked to by the owner/administrator.

Script kiddies and lamers aside...

Hackers have advanced public knowledge of computers and their operators. True hackers hack only to learn or make something better - "only for good, never for evil."

Hacker is like Kleenex - it's a generic term these days. And that's what's truly too bad...

Kenny P.

I;ve met a lot of people in the industry... And one thing I have learned is that nothing is what it seems... the term "hacker" doesn't fit in my glossary. because it's such a broad term... I think the Webster said that it means "to change"... Well anyways, it always starts out as an innocent thing... I think maybe some people learn about some of the more malicious aspects of -DOS- (denial of service), and maybe the temptation to abuse such power is what throws them looping. It's another one of those catch22 questions... there is no right answer. The only information you could provide could potentially get you in trouble. The reason why there is underground activity is simply because of the "law" portion... It's one of things that, inevitably, you one day will learn how to do. It all depends on how far you are willing to go for X amount of dollars. For some reason everything boils down to some form of politics.

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When they ask you if you have ID, smile and nod :Þ

I agree with you regarding script kiddies but your stance supporting or at least tacitly approving of your friends hacking is simply wrong. What if your friend helped a pedophile erase his criminal record so he could obtain employment in a school or some other facility where he could ply his trade again? Falsifying or erasing records as you describe is a crime and your friend is a criminal not some sort of white knight fighting the "Establishment".

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by CobraTekMax:
Trust me, guys, there is a whole lot more money in hacking than any "legit" computer business, if you know what you're doing and have the right connections. I know a guy who has helped people clear their debt, change their identity and even fake their own deaths by wiping all public records of any proof of their existence. He can pretty much name his price for any of these tasks.

Hackers I have no ill toward, as this friend of mine has done me for than a few favors. Script kiddies are a different story, just a bunch of punks, nothing more than hacker wanna-bes.

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Hackers do damage on the net. https://forums.windrivers.com/ They deface websites, crack FTP, etc... they do REALLY BAD DAMAGE... but sometimes helpful ... we are able to know the weakness of our PC's ... im very proud of them

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- Randolph - https://forums.windrivers.com/ https://forums.windrivers.com/

[This message has been edited by Randolph (edited February 09, 2001).]

I can remember as many do the day of the sinclair color computer and programming it to "roll" dice. We have come along way since then and so has the term Hacker, Phreaker, Cracker, and many other terms associated with computers. I spend hours just trying to stay up on the latest information concerning these persons and when, unfortunately, one deems it necessary to violate US Title 18 I get involved. I spend hours lurkink around finding out who is doing what to whom and so forth. As far as I am concerned, the seek for knowlwedge for knowledge sake is what got us to this level of understanding so far. Depends on the persons intent and outcome, for example,
§6.02. Requirement of culpability.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person does not commit an offense
unless he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence engages in conduct as the definition of the offense requires.

I spend many hours ensuring your safety from people who would do you harm or to that of your family. If for a second they appear to endanger the welfare or safety of you or your system, the line has been crossed and a new chase has begun.
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Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistingushible from magic - Arthur C Clarke

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Gary Spurger - Cpl
Tech Services / Computer Crimes Division
Harris County Constables, Precinct 4

[This message has been edited by k9fto (edited February 09, 2001).]