Engineer - losing credibility?

On this side of the Atlantic, the title "engineer" is associated by the general public with the guy holding the monkey wrench and the oily rag. In my former incarnation as an industrial chemist, I had the pleasure of working with/for some very fine engineers (male and female). The professional requirements for any branch of engineering here are tough, to say the least, with a university degree (heavy on the mathematics) and several years approved professional experience needed to attain the status of Chartered Engineer. Good ones (most of them) get a LOT of respect from me.

"Sikx munce ago i cudnt spel enjuneer now i ar wun" ... Sid the trainee washing machine repair guy.

Engineers turn imagination into reality !

Lets see, "Engineer-losing credibility?", yes indeed. Very overused by people straining "to be" somebody. Now that that is said, consider this: Engineer- the one who designed that POS that just laid your arm open with a hidden razor edge, while you were trying to replace a component that failed because it was under rated for the application. Technician- the one who takes the POS engineered box and makes it work. I get it. Just kidding!!!!

In college, I was called a 'Beer Recycling Engineer'...But, dammit!, I earned that title! :D :D

Websters defines engineer as:

One who is trained or professionally engaged in a branch of engineering.

This leads to the definition of engineering (as the other 2 follow the subject of this thread less closely):

The application of scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends such as the design, manufacture, and operation of efficient and economical structures, machines, processes, and systems.

This can be boiled down to the layman's terms of "One who solves problems by using math or technology"

Think about this one. To be called an engineer is to be called a problem solver. A Civic Engineer's goals is to design bridges that can withstand the forces of nature. A Mechanical Engineer designs machines to work efficiently or improves on the design of mechanical devices ... etc.

I think that the term domestic engineer or sanitation engineer shouldn't apply to cleaners or garbage collectors. They aren't coming up with solutions to problems, they are just fulfilling duties laid out to them. They are technicians. :eek: :eek:


Now all you techs (myself included) shouldn't get their hackles up. If your answers come from experience (from yours or others, but mainly yours) and deductive reasoning, rather than an answer supplied by a database of FAQ's, then you can consider yourself to be an engineer ... certified or not is just a question of formalization.

But that's a whole different discussion thread. :D :D :D

I think anyone that calls themself an engineer and are not should be punished by execution live on TV. :D just kidding.

Check your state board of registration for professional engineers to see if you can use the term Engineer in your State. Engineering Certification is really about public safety. I'm certifiable electrical engineer and I don't make anywhere near six figures in salary. :confused:

Im a Tech ... plain and simple , i have most of an Electrical Engineering degree and decided i liked being the guy who fixes sh!t better. True engineers are born , not trained.

I agree the term "engineer" is waaaay overused / overrated in the computer industry. I hold an MCSE certification, but dont feel it really qualifies me to be looked upon as an "Engineer" of any kind. I fix stuff. The training I went through to get that title did help me gain a lot of knowledge and experience that I feel does help - and I stress help - me perform my job duties, but shouldnt be a merit on its own. (unless of course there is some company out there who actually does hire MCSEs at a 100K salary based on the cert alone... HOOK ME UP!)

Hmmm....engineer or tech...I'm neither one..
I'm a "TIT" - Tech In Training.. :eek:

My experience has been that the term engineer is overused in the IT industry. When I used to be on a helpdesk I was called a "Technical Support Engineer", not "Helpdesk Tech", which is all I really was. I think though that the definition of engineer is changing. The term seems now to mean an individual with strong technical abilities, rather than a run-of-the-mill soda-can-designing, the-physics-of-this-cog-in-relation-to-this-cog, sort of person. I don't know what I'm trying to say. :p

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Originally posted by Foehammer:
I don't know what I'm trying to say. :p

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AHaaaa! You must therefore be an engineer ;) ;) ;)

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Originally posted by Nicholas 'Raijen' Furniss:
I've seen the term "Systems engineer" and "Software Engineer" used as well. Although i preform a similar function to "System Engineers" I wouldn't go so far as to call myself one. To me an engineer implies either

A) Far more experience than I have :)
B) A degree from a university/College.

I fit neither category, and thus wouldn't go so far as to call myself an engineer.

My 2c

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That's not entirely true. I have one friend who is now an electrical engineer, but his degree is in physics. He has no educational background in engineering, yet designs circuits for Tripp Lite.

I have another friend who is an electrical engineer who has no college education, save perhaps for a class or two at the local junior/community college (and probably not EE-related).

Both worked their way up through the ranks starting as glorified repairmen, but neither can be said to be anything other than engineers in what they do now. It's not just about the degree. :)

Oh, and I totally agree that the word "engineer" is overused these days. Not only with respect to janitors, etc., but even in the case of Software Engineers, I think the term is abused. I know that programmers work very hard and are often very smart, but you don't see suspension bridges exploding every few months, do you? Computer science is way to young to be tossing around words like "engineer" just yet.

It seems like everything is being referred to as engineering nowadays. I've even heard of a janitor as being called a custodial engineer. Is this good or bad? I don't think it's either one. A lot of it has to do with the fact that the title "engineer" implies a lot of knowledge in a particular area. It's more to help someone feel better about there job not to belittle the people that have a real degree as an engineer.
As for whether or not certificates make you a better tech. No they don't. It only tells me you've taken a basic test in the subject and passed. If you have a few years of hands-on experience in the field, I would hire you over a paper tech anyday. A cert doesn't get you a job. Experience does. It's unfortunate that a lot of people won't even look at someone without a cert as I've already read in this forum. Some people don't have the resources to get the certs.

I'll just stick to guru then.

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Originally posted by Hippie:
As for whether or not certificates make you a better tech. No they don't. It only tells me you've taken a basic test in the subject and passed. If you have a few years of hands-on experience in the field, I would hire you over a paper tech anyday. A cert doesn't get you a job. Experience does. It's unfortunate that a lot of people won't even look at someone without a cert as I've already read in this forum. Some people don't have the resources to get the certs.

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I had to go through 4 years of internship hands-on experience before i could apply for certification to be called an engineer. I didn't know that you could be certified w/o experience.

it really depends on the certification you go for. microsoft network certifications around my area go for virtually nothing. myself, i think that 'engineer' implies the creation of something. an electrical engineer creates electronics. an electrician works on/repairs electronics. the same goes for mechanical engineer/mechanic(non-auto related obviously). however, as far as the title of engineer goes, i think that at least a college degree should be required to be titled an engineer. so someone majored in electronics engineering that repairs circuit boards would be considered an electrical engineer even though he does not create or engineer electrical equipment.