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OK enough stirring it. As usual those that are vehemently opposed or for jump into the fray.
At the end of the day you are arguing about who is the best ball team - only playing the game will actually give a result - talking about it gets you nowhere.
EC I think you are right about one thing, Bush definitely is doing a Maggie, but then what political leader in his/her right mind wouldn't?
Since when did anyone equate politics with altruism?
[quote]Originally posted by gxavier:
<strong>And Noonoo, you just showed that the UK has problems with misconceptions about America. For one, your silly remark about Americans not knowing who the British Prime Minister is without looking it up is crazy. Tony Blair is probably the second most known man in world politics. Americans ARENT dumb. We aren't just a bunch of trailer trash, simpsons watching, wife beating, insest screwing, fat beer drinking men with guns. And sadly, thats what most of the world thinks the majority is.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unfortunatly, that is how a lot of the world looked at us about 7 months ago. Passive, and afraid to get hurt.
Our "American Made" products aren't as good as they were up until the 70's and 80's. A lot of them look at us as being lazy, I want a day off for this, a day off for that. Thats how a lot of them look at our workforce.
In Somalia, we tried to keep some peace there, we lost some solders, so we pulled out. Iraq, we didn't finish the job. Libya shot and killed some of our serivcemen in defence during Kadaffi's "line of death". The US didn't react violently durning the Bay of Pigs. We pulled out of Vietnam. We've constantly tried to find a peaceful solution with Isreal vs. Palestine.
Thats why the rest of the world (esp organizations like Iraq, Al-Qaida, the Taliban, etc..) look at us like cowards. We didn't go to get Timothy McVeigh with guns flying. None of them realized what we were fully capable of.
I look at Bin Laden now as we did back in the early 40's with Hirohito. Neither of them realized what was really going to happen. They thought there would be a different outcome, but, we were able to show how we are willing to defend ourselves to the end.
I'd admit. I feel damn lucky to be living here. Rarley do we see terrorist attacks, and I'm sure something like Spet 11th will happen once in my life time ( I hope). I also feel that I do not live where this is everyday. Places like Isreal, Northern Ireland have terrorist bombings several times a week (N Ireland has seemed to cool down a lot!). SOme countries are still in civil war, like Columbia, and others still have fightng going on, like in the former USSR, the Phillipines, and in Central America.
I didn't see any reports of Bush naming China as a threat, but saying they're added to a nuke target is rather uncalled for. Sure, any country with nukes is a nuke target to the others. Russia, China, North Korea definatly. If you really put it all the way down, I'm sure France and the UK are somewhere on that list (most likly at the bottom). Its public knowledge, but its something we'd rather not talk about.
Yes, world tensions are very high, but as long as the intelligent and mature powers keep everything in line, there should't be any global thermal nuclear war. There are issues that need to be addressed. Bush calling Bin Laden "irrelevant" now is really not the wise thing to say, unless it a smokescreen. 1) He has his name. 2) He still has money. 3) He still has some of his network 4) He still has his leadership skills. Hussein may or may not have nukes now, but he definatly has chemical, and probably wouldn't hesitate to use them.
I'll stop babbling now...
[quote]Originally posted by NooNoo:
<strong>At the end of the day you are arguing about who is the best ball team - only playing the game will actually give a result - talking about it gets you nowhere.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Red Sox, definatly.
;)
[quote]Originally posted by gxavier:
<strong>
They must be. Bush does not look like a puppet. He doesn't look like a weak figurehead, and he definately doesn't have the 'backbone of a squid'. He sticks to his standards, he speaks strongly and reassuritavely, he doesn't back down.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is definitely 1 reason why I like him as a president. He seems to speak the truth even if it's not good. He has that "Never fear, Bush is here!" attitude and prevails at the task. He is stern, blunt and seems to be honest at his every effort. Listening to his speeches makes me feel good about my American brothers and sisters (of all nationalities), we will all be united and win against any situation or for the matter any other country. And God Bless our Alies!
But like I said before, his bluntness and political statue seem to sometimes cause more problems.
[quote]Originally posted by opiate:
<strong>
That is definitely 1 reason why I like him as a president. He seems to speak the truth even if it's not good. He has that "Never fear, Bush is here!" attitude and prevails at the task. He is stern, blunt and seems to be honest at his every effort. Listening to his speeches makes me feel good about my American brothers and sisters (of all nationalities), we will all be united and win against any situation or for the matter any other country. And God Bless our Alies!
But like I said before, his bluntness and political statue seem to sometimes cause more problems.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Watch him closly during his speaches, you cantell when he's lying, he gets a little choked up..
[quote]Originally posted by Draggar:
<strong>
Watch him closly during his speaches, you cantell when he's lying, he gets a little choked up..</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you were the President of the most powerful country in the world, then wouldn't you get choked up sometimes? I know I would.
[quote]Originally posted by opiate:
<strong>
If you were the President of the most powerful country in the world, then wouldn't you get choked up sometimes? I know I would.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, but only when he lies.
Look at Clinton. You think all his "I'm so sorry I had that inappropiate relationship with Miss Lewinsky" were really honest and from the heart? I think not...
The non-Americans need to realize that we are trying to bring peace through out the world. And if that means starting wars to flush out the threats on the US and other countries, then I don't see a problem.
[quote]Originally posted by Draggar:
<strong>
Yeah, but only when he lies.
Look at Clinton. You think all his "I'm so sorry I had that inappropiate relationship with Miss Lewinsky" were really honest and from the heart? I think not...</strong><hr></blockquote>
That was Clintons personal life and not him as a Presedent. Besides what the heck is your point?
Edited by Bracius
Bracius, suggest you read my post at the top of page 3... you will find that I was just stirring it.
I have no real opinion either way in politics or countries or anything like that, because at the end of the day you still have to live.
Yes I could get upset about all the grievous things that have happened to me an my country. I just don't. Implying I was throwing salt in the wound was unjust, especially as we have family friends who worked in wtc.
All I am saying is there are more than one opinion and much of it is shaped by the media - as others were quick to point out that my comments where shaped by the media.
If ya wanna get into a he said /she said match - go to Jerusalem or Indonesia or the Balkans or other strife torn region and see how bad it can really get and just how hopeless it seems to any rational person. Would throwing the collective American weight around help there? Would taking out the faction leaders help? No. You just breed martyrs. For all the US help in Israel has there been any real improvement in the death rates? The Israelis themselves voted in the hardest line leader they had in years. The response from Palestine? More violence.
Violence begets violence. Talking it up just charges the patriotic souls who think they are making a difference by killing someone else.
Its very sad, I have no answers, but history has shown that stomping on people doesn't work or is extremely costly to maintain as the USSR found out.
Edited by Bracius
[quote]Originally posted by ßracius:
<strong>
Noo Noo, cogitate on what you said in both post and you might understand why you would and still are pissing people off.</strong><hr></blockquote>
my intention is not to piss people off, but to highlight that there is other points of view mostly generated by YOUR media. If you are getting pissed at my words, then maybe you need to look the problem a little more deeply.
Or are you saying you get pissed off because I suggest that sabre rattling is not the way to go here?
Perhaps you could cogitate yourself on solutions or at least accept there is more than one point of view and culture in this world.
I for one am not arrogant enough to think that one person or faction is correct. My way or the highway is not one of my maxims. I may not understand why people live as they do, but I certainly don't believe its wrong just because they don't live as I do, with my beliefs and my way of doing things.
Edited by Bracius
[quote]Originally posted by ßracius:
<strong>
How is insulting Americans and then turning around and saying that you were only trying to stur things up not intentionally pissing people off?!?!?
"Or are you saying you get pissed off because I suggest that sabre rattling is not the way to go here?" Nope, didn't bother me. I can understand politics just fine.</strong><hr></blockquote>
mmm never done debating? Taking an opposing view just to see where it goes? If you get pissed at someone presenting a different point of view to yours then you should perhaps try a debating society and work out how to accept others points of view without having to agree with them or making you angry.
I admitted to stirring it because I could see this was rapidly gonna get personal, Cleetus and one or two others are about the only one here with the background to argue many of these points intelligently.