im just glad he's gone and i hope that the press doesn't keep talking about it.
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im just glad he's gone and i hope that the press doesn't keep talking about it.
Agreed. There's really not much left to say about the matter huh?Quote:
Originally posted by snooper2:
<STRONG>im just glad he's gone and i hope that the press doesn't keep talking about it.</STRONG>
I don't know about you guys, but that Son of bitch got off real easy. I would have done this for free, but I say rig him with a nice bomb. But first, give him a Kevlar vest and maybe some Kevlar parts to cover his head and other parts, but not all. So when the bomb goes, only parts of him go, just not enough to kill him right off. Then maybe he can feel a fraction of what some of his victims felt.
Again, I'd do this for free, but give me a small arsenal and I'd solve america's Prinson Over-poluation real quick.
Been from the UK we have no death penalty for murder (I think we do for high treason - not sure though) which is a good thing. Too many wrong convictions.
In my view the death penality is too easy. Its a quick way out. Life in prision as in full life not the 25 years for Brits that we have at present is much worse. 60 or more years with no rights in a cell is far worse than death.
Although i know your directing that comment at mostly rapists/murderers I've had several family members in prison for long periods of time for non-violent protesting/resisting , even though im taking it a bit out of context I still don't apreciate that comment.Quote:
Originally posted by Lycia:
<STRONG>
but give me a small arsenal and I'd solve america's Prinson Over-poluation real quick.</STRONG>
gee where to begin on this one...
I support capital punishment. I am glad he is gone. I cant however say I even come close to understanding his motives. Many people are disenfranchised with the government. That doesnt mean blow up a bunch of people. Even if they are government employees, they had nothing to do with what he had issues with. (Of course a case could me made for destroying my local DMV... <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> a little humor not serious)
some minor notes too. an eye for an eye is Hammurabi's code. I believe it is the oldest recorded law. (pre dates what we call the bible I believe) As for the one post asking why some people view childrens lives as more valueable, I think most people are more outraged at a childs death because they haven't really lived any sembelance of a full life yet. They usually havent had a girlfriend/boyfriend, job, family...etc.
Now the painful ways some people would have liked to kill him...makes me wonder about a few of you. Geez I hope I stay on yalls good side. You guys trying to get the Marquis de Windrivers award. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">I liked the idea but that pesky Constitution of ours. I also agree with the others that killing him is better than footing the bill for letting him live. Anyway I have rambled enough (not to mention got side tracked an lost my train of thought)
I didn't think that you were flaming me. I was actually kind of agreeing with you.Quote:
Originally posted by Solid Cobra:
<STRONG>
I just want to clarify that I don't in any way support on condone what he did. I've just re-examined the situation, and I can see WHY he did it - whether he was right or wrong is a different issue all together.
(ilovetheusers, I didn't take what you said as an attack or flame against me in any way. I just wanted to brace my stance before someone misconstrued what you said and used it against me...)</STRONG>
To anyone else - I never condoned this guys actions. I just said that I understand. Big difference. I like to get into peoples heads and try to fiqure out what they are/were thinking.
Actually, decades in prison is cheaper. As I said previously, lawyers make millions of dollars defending inmates on death row. That's one good argument for abolishing the death penalty...Quote:
Originally posted by snoodle69:
<STRONG> why keep somone young like McVeigh in prison for the rest of his life, which barring a prison "incident", could be decades? this cost you and me, the taxpayer, zillions of dollars. killing cost money too, but not the same cost as decades in prison.</STRONG>
Kill em all, Let the coroner sort em out
The dealth penalty was completely abolished in 98 (including treason), and Jack Straw signed away the Governments right to re-instate it when he signed the human rights act in 99.Quote:
Originally posted by TeddyRuxspin:
<STRONG>Been from the UK we have no death penalty for murder (I think we do for high treason - not sure though) which is a good thing. Too many wrong convictions.
In my view the death penality is too easy. Its a quick way out. Life in prision as in full life not the 25 years for Brits that we have at present is much worse. 60 or more years with no rights in a cell is far worse than death.</STRONG>
As far as McVeigh is concerned? Well, I do believe in an eye for an eye etc, but is it closure for the victims? No, I don't think so. There was no remorse. He did what he did because he thought it was the right thing to do. He wasn't sorry for doing it.
Capital punishment isn't an effective deterrent any more. The whole damn world has taken a turn for the surreal.
Just my tuppence worth.
Caddarn
The US has trained people to kill and rewarded them for being proficient (TM's medals for Desert Storm.) We teach them to kill anyone that is the enemy (men,women andchildren, then we bring them home and s--t on them. I do not agree with what he did but he was a product of our society and he is not the first nor will he be the last.
Now the media will make an Icon (not for your desktop) out of him and though he will not be a hero, he will become something comparable to Manson, Geen, and Bundy. I fear that this is only the beginning.
That monster got off WAAAAAAY too easy. All he did was go to sleep. I guess I'm rather medieval when it comes to my attitudes on executions - the punishment should fit the crime.
Maybe they shoulda chained his leg to the floor in that naval hospital that got imploded, so he could get the joy of dying by being blown up and crushed to death. Maybe the Kingdome woulda worked.
My "Oklahoma City" story:
I was working for 411 at the time, and suddenly we all started getting mass quantities of calls asking for the Area Code for Oklahoma City, for the FBI, and for all the news organizations. After about 20 minutes of this, they made us put our callers on hold and told us what happened. We all sat there in shock for like 10 minutes before they ordered us back to work.
I keep reading about how people could see his point of view, or maybe how he wasn't all that bad. I have to disagree: he was a monster to the end.
Between his quoting from "Invictus" to his letter where he says that *he* knew the human toll was going to be great (not like the people in that building knew that they were going to lose their lives in some kind of heroic gesture or anything....).
<blockquote>It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.</blockquote>
This tells me that he thought up to the end that he was in charge of the whole process; that he sees himself as some kind of martyr.
I hope his next incarnation is as an ant so I can squish him.
it is written, an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, he should have had to be placed in an old building, and then the place be leveled.
When was it ever? From "Landscapes of Fear" by Yi-Fu TuanQuote:
Originally posted by Caddarn:
<STRONG>Capital punishment isn't an effective deterrent any more.
Caddarn</STRONG>
Clearly, if execution was any detriment, there wouldn't have been the need to execute so many people on such a regular basis. If incarceration was any detriment, all our jails wouldn't be overflowing with inmates.... One of the problems in trying to analyze the situation of crime and criminals is that it is impossible to use rational thinking to understand irrational actions. People who commit crimes don't worry about consequences because they truly believe that they are somehow different from 'all those losers' and will somehow avoid getting caught. What then is the answer? No one knows. Rome was the first major society to attempt incarceration as a way of punishing crime--it didn't work. Crime continued to climb--when a criminal was taken out of society, the potential for crime was not reduced. Criminals are opportunists, take away one, another arises to take advantage of the 'opportunity'. Rome next tried public executions through crucifixion and gladiator games which did nothing to eliminate crime either. History tells us that Rome fell but crime continued.....Quote:
"By 1783, when execution was abolished at Tyburn [just one upon thousands of gallows that proliferated across the countryside in England for centuries], the gallows there had, in their 650 years of service, strangled to death at least 50,000 human beings."
We say that jails and executions are for punishment and deterence. More actually, they exist to help society pretend that we can be protected. In the US over the past 10+ years the incidence of violent crime has dropped considerably. Because we built more prisons? More than likely because the economy was performing much better and the unemployment rate was at all-time lows.
I guess I'll leave this essay now while I can still pretend that it contains a little more information than opinion--I would hate to cross the line any further and tell others how they should think. TM is gone as are his victims....perhaps it is time for each of us to look in the mirror and ask ourselves "What can I do to help make the world a better place for all?
Many people die from bombings almost everyday around the world, from small country civil wars to the violence in the middle east. Bombings aren't an everyday fact of life in North America. McVeigh used a bomb to nearly destroy a trading centre with the understanding there would be casualties, no matter who the victims were. We are shocked by this and want justice. Where bombings happen everyday thoughout the world, it's just a fact of life for those places and justice is usually served with a swift vengeance against people whether they are guilty or not. Thank goodness for our justice systems, even though they are far from being perfect. Just a thought for all of us.
Yes, McVeigh did get executed, but in the end he won, not American justice. There is no closure here.
Another thing, many Americans called McVeigh a coward for what he did, yet the media constantly portrayed this man as some kind of courageous martyr, almost like cult hero. Maybe we as a society should take a closer look at ourselves. <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">