Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
Quote:
Originally posted by Ya_know
...Until we can all live under the same roof, with the same or similar beliefs, and can trust one and other completely, war will always be a part of our simple-minded culture...
If you don't mind, I'll state that this is impossible, and that in any case, beliefs don't account for the worst torture and bloodshed inflicted on other humans yet - absence of beliefs does (Hitler, Lenin, et al.).
My brother was discussing this with me recently and, although he's peace-minded, had to agree with the following concept:
How can we preach peace for the Middle-East when we're more than ready to take our neighbour to court if his dog poops on our lawn?
There's something in man that goes deeper than beliefs or philosophies which makes him hate.
And that may very well be why we hate war so much.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
Quote:
Originally posted by Ya_know
To oppose war in general is my belief, as well as the belief of probably well over 95% of the world population. But let’s be realistic, you can't stop all war without removing tyranny from power first. Next, you must rebuild governments with the idea that all are created equal. However, because of deeply held religious and cultural convictions this can’t easily be attained within one country, let alone several neighboring counties; an example is the Israelis and Palestinians feuding over the same land, each deeming it their own holly land. How many hundreds of years will that feud continue, and just who is even right?
Until we can all live under the same roof, with the same or similar beliefs, and can trust one and other completely, war will always be a part of our simple-minded culture. You can oppose it all that you want, but your voice will not be heard by those that can make the difference, because right now there are leaders in the world that can’t be fully trusted with the well being of the rest of the world at stake…Sometimes you have to sacrifice for your freedoms…
Ok lets take that 1 at the time:
1- But let’s be realistic, you can't stop all war without removing tyranny from power first.
In this case (IRAK) the US invaded on the pretention Sadam was helping El-Quaida ( no real proof of that was ever submitted) AND he had WMD, including chems and nukes.
So far, I think the 101AB has found a can of Raid, but no nukes.
Grant you, Sadam is a nutcase.
2- Next, you must rebuild governments with the idea that all are created equal.
Why ? Youre saying you have to impose your own values on a culturally, legally and spiritually different civilisation, wheter they want it or not ?
BTW, that is EXACTLY what the US was saying AGAINST the now deceased USSR.
3- However, because of deeply held religious and cultural convictions this can’t easily be attained within one country, let alone several neighboring counties; an example is the Israelis and Palestinians feuding over the same land, each deeming it their own holly land. How many hundreds of years will that feud continue, and just who is even right?
They have been at war (one sort or the other) for more than 6000 years. The real problems started after 1945 when the UN (under pressure from the US) created the state of Israel.
As to who is right, does it really matter ?
When a mortar pierce trough you roof and explode on your baby's crib, do you really want to know why and how it started ? - Either you go for revenge (killing somebody else baby) or you start looking for peace. Problem is a lot of people want revenge before the peace, so....
4- Until we can all live under the same roof, with the same or similar beliefs, and can trust one and other completely, war will always be a part of our simple-minded culture.
So there is only 1 way, 1 god, 1 culture. let me guess: US
5- [B]You can oppose it all that you want, but your voice will not be heard by those that can make the difference, because right now there are leaders in the world that can’t be fully trusted with the well being of the rest of the world at stake/B]
If you really believe that, I suggest you read back your constitution.
6- Sometimes you have to sacrifice for your freedoms…
Yep.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
Quote:
Originally posted by Drone2903
So there is only 1 way, 1 god, 1 culture. let me guess: US
Now you are learnin' boy o
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
In this case (IRAK) the US invaded on the pretention Sadam was helping El-Quaida ( no real proof of that was ever submitted) AND he had WMD, including chems and nukes.
So far, I think the 101AB has found a can of Raid, but no nukes.
I heard on the radio that the marines over ran a terrorist training camp where they found an aircraft fuselage and training manuals on how to use short bladed weapons (box cutters). They have found ricin and botulism bacteria. They may have found nerve gas and mustard gas this morning (maybe not).
Why ? Youre saying you have to impose your own values on a culturally, legally and spiritually different civilisation, wheter they want it or not ?
BTW, that is EXACTLY what the US was saying AGAINST the now deceased USSR.
Call me crazy but are you arguing that we are imposing free will through democracy? I'm sorry, what??
They have been at war (one sort or the other) for more than 6000 years. The real problems started after 1945 when the UN (under pressure from the US) created the state of Israel.
As to who is right, does it really matter ?
When a mortar pierce trough you roof and explode on your baby's crib, do you really want to know why and how it started ? - Either you go for revenge (killing somebody else baby) or you start looking for peace. Problem is a lot of people want revenge before the peace, so....
Of course it's obviously the jews. They have a great conspiracy brewing with the gays to take over the world you know... :rolleyes:
Perhaps you have forgotten that no one else wants the palestinians, they were never a groups from a soverign country, the Israelis actually fought for their territory that was promised them by the british, they keep the "holy land" open to all religions which their neighbors would NEVER have done, they were attacked by their neighboring countries several times, oh, and they have human bombs exploding and terrorists killing their people a hell of a lot more that then harm others and jesus and mohammed only lived less than 2000 years ago.
I agree with you on the rest of the stuff you said. ;)
'I agree with the "yep" only if you're being sarcastic.
Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
Quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Clam
Okay, I'm gonna save a bunch of you a lot of time by turning myself in and going quietly. That's right, I am a human being who is opposed to the war, and guilty of the additional crimes of being Canadian and even worse--I can speak some French. I don't like George Bush, don't believe he was ever elected, and am very critical of the war in general, so let the condemning begin. I honestly believe he is doing it for oil and not for any other reason. I must be paranoid! I have a "leftist" viewpoint, so I must be a whiner too. I confess to whistleblowing uncomfortable things to the right such as North Korea, that you would rather keep swept under the rug. I must therefore be a danger to society, not unlike a terrorist. Speaking of terrorists, I still don't see a connection between them and Iraq--so I guess I must be an idiot too.
In summary, I am not cooperating with the powers that be, so I realize I have no human rights left and need to be dealt with immediately.
I realize that hoping no Americans die in combat doesn't excuse me from my sins. I know that the issue has to be 100% black and white and that I must be Saddam's butt buddy, and that anything that I do say against Iraq or in support of the US troops must be discounted because of my criminal mindset.
I'm standing up right here and identifying myself publicly so that all of you know to ridicule me, accuse me of treason, socialism, communism, Iraqism, neo-cubism, organism, prism, and any other -isms you feel appropriate. Bring on the dunking chair!
I know I shall be studied in labs to determine the cause of my stupidity, lobotomized to protect the free world from my dangerous opinions, demonized for daring to speak out against the war machine, and languish in a dungeon somewhere for all eternity alongside Jimmy Hoffa for my views.
So there you go. I've turned myself in. So now those of you who consider me your enemy now no longer have to play games, you can just hate me openly from here on in.
What are you on about?
Here's a big cross for you to nail yourself to whenever you feel oppressed on the internet:
http://www.clarechampion.ie/02/apr/cc20020405/pic2.jpg
It's really hard to get the last nail in...
:D :D :D :D :D <===LOOK - SMILEYS. Just makin a joke here.
Really, what are you on about, did I miss something?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
Quote:
Originally posted by Drone2903
In this case (IRAK) the US invaded on the pretention Sadam was helping El-Quaida ( no real proof of that was ever submitted) AND he had WMD, including chems and nukes.
So far, I think the 101AB has found a can of Raid, but no nukes.
Grant you, Sadam is a nutcase.
proof
proof
The information that Colin Powell provided to the UN Security Council on 2 February has gone unrefuted. Even the Iraqis have been silent in response.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
Quote:
Originally posted by Drone2903
Ok lets take that 1 at the time:
In this case (IRAK) the US invaded on the pretention Sadam was helping El-Quaida ( no real proof of that was ever submitted) AND he had WMD, including chems and nukes.
So far, I think the 101AB has found a can of Raid, but no nukes.
Why ? Youre saying you have to impose your own values on a culturally, legally and spiritually different civilisation, wheter they want it or not ?
BTW, that is EXACTLY what the US was saying AGAINST the now deceased USSR.
They have been at war (one sort or the other) for more than 6000 years. The real problems started after 1945 when the UN (under pressure from the US) created the state of Israel.
As to who is right, does it really matter ?
When a mortar pierce trough you roof and explode on your baby's crib, do you really want to know why and how it started ? - Either you go for revenge (killing somebody else baby) or you start looking for peace. Problem is a lot of people want revenge before the peace, so....
So there is only 1 way, 1 god, 1 culture. let me guess: US
If you really believe that, I suggest you read back your constitution.
6- Sometimes you have to sacrifice for your freedoms…
Yep.
I actually have read the US Constitution twice in my life. If you think reading it is the best way to understand it, you are wrong. It is and will always be a living and breathing document, open to various interpretations and amendments. That is what democracy is all about. A governing body working for the better good of all of the people under its protection. Iraq’s government doesn't offer that, and we are there to put an end to it once and for all.
You wanted to pick apart my statement by dismantling a single contextualized thought. My idea was encompassed within the entire post, and not bits and pieces. My thoughts make perfect sense in their entirety, as they are aloud to breath together as one statement complements the other. Your ideas here are just tidbits of false conjecture, and nothing more. Is that how you interpret the Constitution? Have you ever actually read it yourself, and be honest with me..?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
Quote:
Originally posted by Ya_know
I actually have read the US Constitution twice in my life. If you think reading it is the best way to understand it, you are wrong. It is and will always be a living and breathing document, open to various interpretations and amendments. That is what democracy is all about. A governing body working for the better good of all of the people under its protection. Iraq’s government doesn't offer that, and we are there to put an end to it once and for all.
You wanted to pick apart my statement by dismantling a single contextualized thought. My idea was encompassed within the entire post, and not bits and pieces. My thoughts make perfect sense in their entirety, as they are aloud to breath together as one statement complements the other. Your ideas here are just tidbits of false conjecture, and nothing more. Is that how you interpret the Constitution? Have you ever actually read it yourself, and be honest with me..?
Yes I've read the US constitution, and more thant twice in my life. I fact, we did a very interesting study of different state document used by some country, back in my U days. (ok, that was a few scores ago...)
As to pick apart your statement, that was not the objective. I took the time to read and understand what you said and I'm voicing my objection to war in general and for this particular case, I would like you to understand that the US (or should I say Bush jr ) went to war on very thin "proofs".
As to your opinion on my ideas, well, you are entitle to. just as I am about yours.
Dan
;)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous Submersive Reporting For Lynching
Quote:
Originally posted by Drone2903
I would like you to understand that the US (or should I say Bush jr ) went to war on very thin "proofs".
As to your opinion on my ideas, well, you are entitle to. just as I am about yours.
Dan
;)
See I can't help but find fault in your statement here. What the F- makes you think George Bush is a bully, and went to war on his own accord? This entire conflict has been brewing for so many months (actually years since 91), and for many real reasons. It is ridiculous to assume that Bush woke up one day and said, honey, I am going to invade Iraq. But to make a statement like yours, or the one where protesters claim that this war has something to do with oil, presents this simple-minded belief.
This war is the product of careful calculation and determinations of so many thousands of men and women in the governments we elected. The go ahead plans have been foolproofed to produce a fast, unquestionable victory, with minimal civilian and coalition casualties. This isn’t a weekend card game…
Do you see what I so contradict your statements, they really seem poorly thought out?
