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July 29th, 2004, 11:18 AM
nunob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleetus

And not mind them dieing in a preemptive war that was sold to us on false reasoning?

It would bother me if my children died for any reason but its alot easier to swallow that they died to provide you the right to express your views on this than if some terrorist flew a plane into a building and killed them.
July 29th, 2004, 11:30 AM
Ya_know

Quote:

Originally Posted by jitBob

At 18 you are numericly an adult. How many are actually capable of making life and death decisions?

Could you easily make the decision to send very young people into harms way. Wouldn't you have some worry/doubt/regret about doing it? Especially if the reason wasn't cut and dried, black and white, beyond the shadow of a doubt, could you?

I had no qualms about the decision that I had made when I joined the Marines. I did it knowing the ramifications, and there was no doubt in my mind that I could have been signing my own death warrant. I was 18, and sure of what I was doing, and did it.

One of the reasons I left the Marines was simply this, as you start putting on rank, (I made it to Sergeant, E-5) you were responsible for the men and women below you. Sure it wasn’t a command like a company or battalion CO, but it still became a higher part of the chain, where life and death decisions might need to be made with someone else’s life on the line. If I had to do it at the time I would have done my best, and hoped for the best…but when faced with the decision to leave I chose that instead of putting men’s lives in harms way. It just wasn’t anything I personally wanted to be responsible for, thank goodness I never have to do it.

Since so much of these debates are more on the personality of the President being a stupid man, and that he isn’t in charge, and all of that crap…I will give you my personal belief of GWB. I don’t think for one second that he ever wanted to put a soldiers boot on the ground in Iraq until it was absolutely necessary to defend our way of life. He just wouldn’t want that for anyone.

What he did at the time was deemed necessary by intelligence and other fact gathering agencies. Saddam had to go, and we had to send troops in to do it. That was not a decision Bush took lightly, I assure you all that doubt.
July 29th, 2004, 11:33 AM
Ya_know

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleetus

So are you saying once your child is 18 you are no longer going to have any protective feelings or care about them in harms way?

No one said that, what was said was that as a man, your child should be allowed to make his own decisions. You are there to assist, and perhaps coheres if your needs should supersede, but ultimately, you have to let go. You never have to stop loving the child, just respect them man and his decision. This isn't a parents decision after all...it's the mans.
July 29th, 2004, 11:36 AM
Escape_Driver

There is a very wide distance in maturity between one 18 year old and another..
I've worked with 18 year olds who couldn't tie there own shoes...
July 29th, 2004, 11:38 AM
jitBob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ya_know

No one said that, what was said was that as a man, your child should be allowed to make his own decisions. You are there to assist, and perhaps coheres if your needs should supersede, but ultimately, you have to let go. You never have to stop loving the child, just respect them man and his decision. This isn't a parents decision after all...it's the mans.

Letting go of your child is not an easy thing to do. They become men and must make their own decisions. I can respect that, as my own son just turned 18. However I love him so dearly that I will react to any decision that may harm or kill him.

What do you mean by "coheres"?
July 29th, 2004, 11:39 AM
Escape_Driver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ya_know

No one said that, what was said was that as a man, your child should be allowed to make his own decisions. You are there to assist, and perhaps coheres if your needs should supersede, but ultimately, you have to let go. You never have to stop loving the child, just respect them man and his decision. This isn't a parents decision after all...it's the mans.

Some 18 year olds can make that desision.... Some I would trust in a tank or with a gun..... Alot I wouldn't trust with a potato gun....
July 29th, 2004, 11:44 AM
nunob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape_Driver

There is a very wide distance in maturity between one 18 year old and another..
I've worked with 18 year olds who couldn't tie there own shoes...

Some 18 year olds that are morons join the military and have a total makeover they become productive responsible human beings. Then their are the others like my step brother who was thrown out of the airforce because he was incapable of being responsible thats what boot camp is for to weed out those who aren't mature enough to handle it.
July 29th, 2004, 11:47 AM
nunob

Quote:

Originally Posted by jitBob

What do you mean by "coheres"?

tr.v. co·erced, co·erc·ing, co·erc·es
To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.
To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See Synonyms at force.
To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement.
July 29th, 2004, 11:49 AM
Escape_Driver

I think we should draft people who make over 250,000$ per year into the army... Can you imagine the changes that would come about...
July 29th, 2004, 11:52 AM
nunob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape_Driver

I think we should draft people who make over 250,000$ per year into the army... Can you imagine the changes that would come about...

I would be happy to go today and I've already billed over 300k this year in my biz.
July 29th, 2004, 11:54 AM
Cleetus

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunob

It would bother me if my children died for any reason but its alot easier to swallow that they died to provide you the right to express your views on this than if some terrorist flew a plane into a building and killed them.

Hmmm, not once has a terrorist taken away my freedom to express my views, my government has tried in vain attempts to stop the terrorist, but the terrorists themselves never.
July 29th, 2004, 11:55 AM
Cleetus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ya_know

I
Since so much of these debates are more on the personality of the President being a stupid man, and that he isn’t in charge, and all of that crap…I will give you my personal belief of GWB. I don’t think for one second that he ever wanted to put a soldiers boot on the ground in Iraq until it was absolutely necessary to defend our way of life. He just wouldn’t want that for anyone.

What he did at the time was deemed necessary by intelligence and other fact gathering agencies. Saddam had to go, and we had to send troops in to do it. That was not a decision Bush took lightly, I assure you all that doubt.

Defend my way of life? From a two-bit dictator in a third world country that actually had no WMD's all the while the real terrorists were still out there?
July 29th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Ya_know

Quote:

Originally Posted by jitBob

What do you mean by "coheres"?

I meant “coerce”, I guess spell check was working against me in my time of need… :p
July 29th, 2004, 12:02 PM
nunob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleetus

Hmmm, not once has a terrorist taken away my freedom to express my views, my government has tried in vain attempts to stop the terrorist, but the terrorists themselves never.

If Hitler had been let go you wouldnt be typing your views in here right now at least not in english.
July 29th, 2004, 12:06 PM
Cleetus

Saddam wasn't Hitler, two major different players in major different ways, you are really reaching on that one

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