Has anyone else noticed that the one's who think they know it all and try to stir up trouble are also unregistered? Just a thought...
Yes, yes, I know I am too, but I'm also not the one pointing the finger! Put that in your pipe and smoke it! :
Printable View
Has anyone else noticed that the one's who think they know it all and try to stir up trouble are also unregistered? Just a thought...
Yes, yes, I know I am too, but I'm also not the one pointing the finger! Put that in your pipe and smoke it! :
Oh, yes. I always have the exact tools needed for every job I do! (NOTE SARCASM HERE!) It is never possible to have every tool needed for every job you go to do. And at what point did we start grilling the tech? He got locked out of a room where he was working. I am affraid I would have to unlock the door with the customers head. It is the customer that was wrong NOT the tech whether it was 3 minutes or 3 days!Quote:
Originally posted by ?Tech>?:
Before you go out to do an onsite job you should ask the consumer some questions about there system and then think about it decide if you want or think you can do the job and pick out waht tools/software you'll need if your good you can figure this all out by going by the hardware specs and type of machine.
------------------
********************
When All Else Fails Run The Fdisk Patch!
********************
Glenn H. Shelton III
CBS Computers
Saint Cloud FL
Quote:
Originally posted by Rasper:
Sad Sad Sad...
If you were simply installing a drive and doing a data transfer, you should have be in and out in well under an hour. Geez.. any bios overlay utility will let you bypass bios limitations, and if the bios overlay utility (such as EZ-Drive/bios) doesn't allow you to data x-fer, just use Symantec's Ghost to xfer the data.
Either you didn't include all the info.. or you are a worthless tech. What was your hourly rate? I could do that simple task on my lunch break.
WOW! I would like to hire you! You must be superman. What in the hell is wrong with you people. I am thinking you wouldn't know how to eject a floppy disk! Why is it always the unregistered people in here making all the comments on how great they are? If your so great share with us who you are so we can be like you!
------------------
********************
When All Else Fails Run The Fdisk Patch!
********************
Glenn H. Shelton III
CBS Computers
Saint Cloud FL
this is what causes killing sprees, not video games! https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif
I couldn't agree less this a a forum for like minded people to support and help each other. Even if his skills were underated who cares? He did the work he should get paid period. I am not commenting on his skills because i wasn't there but I will say this working in peoples homes/offices will always take longer. You can't cary every tool ever needed nor will you know the real problem until you get there. Saying these comments are "kidding" is a load of something. These are people who need to underate other's to feel better about themselves. As for his question it may not have been "technical" in nature but it was a "tech" question. He asked how to handle bad customers you know the people who pay us.Quote:
Originally posted by just_atech:
Hang on all you goody two shoes hollering about flaming this poor individual. There was no tech question here. He posted a whining story. Asked for no help left it open to comment. He got that good and bad. We dont have to protect him. If you read what was said there is some good advice in here with some light hearted kidding not flaming. If I think he did a bad job I have the right to say that. If I want to side with him that is also my right or for that matter anyone elses. Posted in these forums are all kinds of goodies if you read. Also posted here are tips like this one and if you read some of it including the kidding can help you. Ignore the comments from the guys with the sticks up their a__es as they are no help at all they are too busy policing everything someone says to learn anything. Go do that in the chat rooms on IRC everyone here is an adult and dont need hall monitors.
This is more important then any "technical" question out there. Without customers we don't have job's.
I will now step off my soap box and return you to our normally scheduled forum.
[This message has been edited by tambu (edited August 23, 2000).]
You guys all had great points, and I learned much through reading the different ways we handle business. As for me, I do flat fee billing, unless problems occur. If I run into a snag, I let the customer know and make them aware that the billing will go up. Part of deciding on what to charge is whether the snag could have been avoided. I mean, if you knew about the system (model/brand) and forgot (or don't have the tools), then the cost should be on you.
IE... I stuck a 4GB in a Gateway two weeks ago, upgrading from a 1GB. Easy right, just ez-drive it over. NOOOOO, when the system bios plug and played the drive, poof, the bios toasted. Tried every disk I had and could get it to see the drives, and even was able to ghost, but system wouldn't use either drive. Making the story short, I ended up taking the system back to the shop and upgrading the bios. I still charged the customer the flat drive upgrade and ate the shop cost. Chalk it up to training expense.
Can't see the unforseens, but don't feel right charging for mistakes that could have been avoided had I known. Treat the customer as I would like to be treated. Kind of like car repair. I don't expect to pay for a new exhaust system because the shop ripped it out when they replaced the transmission.
Anyways, it has proved good for me, I am booked most of the week with a third of it from referals. Not getting rich, but sure beats a job.
by the way, as for this guy, he is at the mercy of his company policy. Not knowing for sure, but maybe he couldn't leave in the middle of the job, or couldn't pull the system.
It's messed up he lost his tools, but the company should recoup it for him and sue the pants off the customer. I don't feel he did anything wrong, except for the fact that I would have pulled the system and charged shop cost because it was more than would could be handled on site- customer at that time would have the option to cancel the call or expect to pay more.
Key here is customer service. Although teching is fun and challenging, we have to remember that our main objective (if you want to stay in business) is CUSTOMER SERVICE. I feel that he could have done better there. Bet the customer was expecting a 1-2 hour job, not 3-4. With the environment you explained, you should have expected them not to afford the cost. Something what I do is gauge my billing to the customer. Money don't grow on trees, and not everyone can afford a $200.00 bill to swap a drive.
SUE THE BASTARDS!!!!
as for Q & RASPER you guys are the nerds and hope it happens to you many times over.
customers can be great people and become friends. but, there are many that no one should have to put up with. over my many years in business's. i have experenced many deadbeats. to the deadbeats i say be ready to be sued. just couple weeks ago i had a deadbeat drive 1 hour to me to get his machine fixed. fixed it in 15min, then he wanted some software installed, then he wanted to learn more about running the computer. in all he took over 3 hours of my bench time. at the end he asked "how much" i replyed well it was over $90 but just give me $50. i thought he was going to have a heart attack. told him he could go down the street and pay $75 an hour or go back to where he purchased the machine and i'm sure would charge more then I. he offered me $40 which i took and when he opened his wallet, it was full of 20's, 50's & 100's. he emailed me 3 times in the following week for advice which i never replied.
30 years ago i sued a friend for $50 and would do it again. by the way we are still friends.
i had to sue a past employee for $35,000. i was in the right as said by 4 lawyers. on court day, due to last min. changes in lawyers and not having all the paper work needed. i lost the case and had to pay $500 in cost. know what i said, f--- you i'll take the 3 days in jail. it was a good well needed rest, lol. i'll bet Q or RASPER would not have the guts to pay $35,000 for 3 days of room & board.
so again sue the deadbeats, but have your i's dotted and t's crossed.
Its nice being able to pick and choose who you do work for. This situation is a prime example of why I personaly shy away from working in a persons home. Would they ask their car care technician to come and work in their driveway? They why ask the pc tech to work in their "home office"? Working in a respectable office is a different ball game than working on John Doe's El Cheapo Cloneo (Compaq consumer grade pcs fall under this heading :-) ) in the home office/rec room/kitchen/laundry room.
I understand the jhutto could not really pick or choose the situation in this case, but as a rule of thumb, I would work on it for an hour or an hour and a half on-site, then seeing that I was not getting any where and billing the snot out of the customer at the same time, explain the situation to the customer and see if they were willing to let me take it back to the office. If they are not willing to let you take it to your bench, explain that it will take another 2-4 hours maybe more to complete the job and give them the option of having you stop, put both systems back in working condition and pay for the hour or so labor that you have at the moment. I would also see about giving them one hour of bench time to complete the job at your office, to try and keep them happy.
These guys are totaly out of line and should have their asses taken to court. Also if they took your tools, get the cops involved. Them locking you away from your tools consitutes theft and they should be charged.
People are absolute loons. It is amazing to me what kind crap people try and get away with.
Maybe this is why I get 95% of my income as an IS Manager for a large company :-)
Man, I can't believe this story is getting kicked around like it is. First off, about the three guys finding this site and reading about it? Please, if that happens, they would be admitting their own guilt right off the back. I say that, because he could of been speaking about some other three guys. I would say there are few other guys living together, especailly college students. Second, the only way they could file charges against him, if their names, where they live or any other information about them, were metioned any where in this post. Even if he admitted that he was talking about them to the judge, the judge wouldn't and couldn't do anything. Because, like I said, he would of had to pin the slander to a name or address. Which none above was done. For it to be slander, the unexpected person has to show proof or a witness saying or showing the victims name or their address where they live at. Other than that, they can't prove squat, that they were bieng slandered at all. For example, I could talk about people here all day. Saying the worst about them, as long as I don't give their name and address or any other vital information about them, there isn't nothing they can do it about it. So jhutto, I wouldn't worry to much about that.
Now, the other thing about these techs using ghost? Yeah, sure, you can do a transfer in 30 minutes. If you had the following, both HDs are UDMA 66, a fast CPU and at least 64 Megs of memory. But, from what I understand, he was transferring data from an older HD to a newer HD. Thats what you call a bottle neck transfer. The newer HD has to wait for the older HD to send data, so, it would take considerably a little longer to do. All these techs ( and I use that term loosely ) that use Ghost and claim to do it transfers in 30 minutes, need to read a little better. Because, jhutto said he had to use a bios utility. Ghost is used in dos mode and if the bios utility isn't up to date one, Ghost will not see it. So, in my opinion, he did what he had to do to get the job done. By the way, Rasper and Q, come to my town and do some work. I would like to have some customers saying they used you two and they came to me saying that they are glad that I'm here.
I've been trying to figure out the "customer service equation" myself.
My parents have been running their own businesses for years & I have always been amazed at how they:
1) get what they want 2) make the customer understand what is going to happen 3) can take control of situations.
Now they've had years of experience, so I asked each of them how is it done?
Their seem to be several keys.
1) Realize that you know what you know. The customer doesn't understand how to do it or they wouldn't have hired you! Yes anyone can copy a task or job. But it takes brains, creativity, committment, training & experience to initially figure out how to start & finish well.
2)Draw pictures & provide a summarized plan for the customer. (Huhh? I said to them.) Make a simple outline on paper. The customer can see exactly what your going to do. You don't need all the details of how. If they want to learn how... tell them to go to school or quit their job & get hired by a computer company. Also include time & price estimates with a sentence saying what happens "just in case" ie. takes more time due to unexpected. With it being on paper they can say they didn't know.
3) You are the boss. Even if you are an employee for someone else you must take control & responsibility. Act as if you are the owner. Many bosses will back up their employees if the employee made a pretty sensible judgement & a really good attempt. If the boss doesn't back you up maybe you shouldn't work for him. (I realize, being an "owner", this can be difficult to allow for mistakes especially when it costs, but it can lead to a better work environment & a better employee with the right encouragement & suggestions to the employee)
4) A soft answer turns an angery one away.
Be more gentle. Haven't you seen how harsh words can make your blood boil? We've seen it right on this message board in the past few days. Words can really increase tension, cause hurt or anger OR can be helpful, considerate, professional. Even kidding or unintensional "stray words" can cause the biggest problems.
I have found that a large number of problems that come through my store has to do this "miscommunication". If I'm as mature as I claim or want to be, every word should count.
Isn't our duty to help the customer? Isn't that our job? Or are we so big on ourselves that we can do without the customer or others?
5) Realize that the customer puts on his' or her's pants on just like you every morning. When he's done he probably gets a muffin & coffee to eat. He's got as much on his mind as you do. He's or she's probably thinking about you as much as you think about them or less.
People are just like you. Most people are not ripeoff artist. Although I must say it does feel like that. I do believe there is a tendency to take advantage of people, whether on purpose or not. Saving money is a big one. I do it everyday. If a supplier has a cheaper price I get the cheaper price for the same quality. However most customers do not know what quality is in computers.
Back to what I was saying.
Know that the customer is an equal not better not worse. We are all people. Just people. So when your talking to them don't be intimidated or over aggressive just help, that's what you would want in their situation.
There are other points to be made, I hope other's bring them out. This is a start.
I hope this forum can be used for good & an encouragment. Remember that there are always several ways to say the same thing. One of those ways will degrade, One will encourage. Since this is a professional trade & we are all helpful people, because we are the best. Let's make this short lifetime good for everyone. You only live once on this good earth. Make your life count.
Now my question.
Can anyone point me to more good resources (software & on the net) to help me & others become a better tech?
What do you use to help you?
For example.
I use Microscope 2000 as my diagnositic
Norton Ghost & Drive Image work well.
Partition Magic works 95% of the time. Watch out for the 5%!!!
Windrivers.com & www.hardwarehell.com are awesome!
I had a customer just a few weeks ago that I quoted to get on the internet w/router, firewall, etc. I shelled out a boatload of cash up front to put them on the internet to allow them to do research (Nexus/Lexus, etc). The deal was once they were online and all was working well that they would pay for the equipment up front (COD) and bill the time later. I was told that the person that cuts the checks was out and to come back the next day. Next day (1hr travel for me each way) this person would not take my calls.
So, I went up there and locked out the router and they were offline (simply told them I left tools in the server room). I didn't get out of the parking garage when I got a call - "We're not on the internet!!!" "I know... Who do you think took you off? I assume you'll have a check for the entire invoice price ready for me by the time I get off of the elevator?"
Click...
And then the fun began...
To make a long story a little shorter, I went there with my lawyer, he told them PAY NOW OR ELSE, and surprisingly enough, they cut a check for the entire invoice amount right then and there.
Hit 'em where it hurts!!!
This happened to me once as well lesson learned was now i load a trojan horse on all systems i am called out on. That little gem stays in place until invoices are paid then a quick fix with the disk for the trojan horse and the land mine is gone. If the invoices aren't paid the trojan horse goes off wiping out the hard drive and all info. Underhanded maybe, effective You Bet since that time i have not had 1 customer refuse to pay an invoice.
Quote:
Originally posted by jhutto:
Check this out..
A Customer called me up asking if I can come out and take a drive out of his old system, and put it in his new one, and transfer the data. I explain the different between programs, and data, and what I can do, etc. Also tell him my hourly fee.
Go onsite, and the new unit is a CPQ Presario, old unit is a CPQ Prolina. No problem. The Prolina has a 4gb drive, formatted with Max Blast (bypassing the BIOS limits). They dont' have the disk that came with it either.
They only have AOL, so it takes a while, but I get Max Blast, load it to a floppy, and isntall the drive, and get both showing up without formatting either.
At this point it is a matter of drag and drop. This whole process tho took over 3 hours, and they call me out to the hall for a sec to ask me a question. I walk out there.
They lock the door to the computer room, and say I was unable to complete the task in the time aloted, and will not be paid for the time I have been here.
I understand the temptation....but beware! Intentionally disabling/damaging/installing trojan timebombs is illegal and could land you in a much worse position than someone not paying a bill. It's one thing to work for nothing or give away parts, it's something else entirely to fork over piles of your own cash!
Interesting topic -- I do some consulting work on the side for a law firm in town occasionally. About a month ago they had me out to install a new hard drive in one of their old machines. This was a simple "install new drive / transfer data / leave in old drive" scenario. I haven't received my payment yet either...=(
I hate to say a lot of folks get very apprehensive about computers. Ego's become involved and it's all down hill from there...
From experience...I've dealt with the kind of companies that utilize CompUSA for technical services. I used to work for CompUSA...not as a tech, but in retail mgmt.
They are typically small business owners that don't know where else to turn. They also have no idea what's involved in transferring a hard drive -- that's why they pay for someone to come do it. Who the hell are they to dictate time constraints?
Of course, I also think the customer is justified in having a time estimate before work begins.
<eom>