Speed Limits + Safety ... Ya right

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Originally Posted by Escape_Driver

Training makes things safer.... But Dusk is the worst time to speed and in the rain ???

But if everyone travels at 100 in an 80 Zone Why is the limit 80...

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That is the fricking basis of your arguement? THAT IS ALL!?! Goddammit, you have no point. None whatsoever. This is the same retarded logic that can be used to decriminalize anything. Murder, rape, assault, burglary, whatever.

With Noo's facts, you have nothing backing up your viewpoint that no speed limits is a good idea. Zero. Zilch. Your answer is that if everyone was forced into more extensive training, we could compensate for the lower safety at higher speeds. That is real smart. First you complain that speed limits are essentially a hidden tax and then you want to force drivers to attend training programs that are sure as hell going to cost money. Do you even know what you are arguing for anymore? Is it that certain sections of interstates could benefit from no speed limits? Congratulations, you just spent more money, because the engineering survey to examine the interstate system to determine good no limit zones isn't going to be free.

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Originally Posted by Escape_Driver

Training makes things safer.... But Dusk is the worst time to speed and in the rain ???

But if everyone travels at 100 in an 80 Zone Why is the limit 80...

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well as I said if everyone just went the same speed it wouldn't be much of a problem... except when something like what happened to me. After dusk and rain, yeah speeding isn't really a good idea... and I realize I should have slowed down... funny thing was, two cars past me a ways before the accident, I guess 100 in an 80 was to slow for them... and as for the speed limit being 80, I think a lot of it is psychological than anything else... the general concensus of a lot of my friends and other drivers around here is that the law is you must be doing 15 over the speed limit to get any points off of your license and a cop wouldn't bother with such a miniscule fine... I once got caught doing 116 in a 60... 4 more kmph and I woulda had my license taken away from me... this was just after I started college The cop came up to my truck and got the usual liceense and registration... he glanced the interior of my truck and I guess he noticed my parking pass for the college and he asked if I was a college student... I said yes... he smiled and asked "Do you have any money?"... I smiled back and said "what do you think officer?" He smiled more and went back to his car... he knocked the ticket down to 75 in a 60 and it was around a $50 ticket (which would tap me but I could afford it), the original ticket would have been around $400... I happened to be going by the court building so I went in to pay the ticket right away figuring I'd better pay now before I spend the money at the bar or something and they gave the the "fastest payment of a ticket" award. 15 minutes. ANYWAYS... I used that story to illustrate in it's most severe form, the leaniancy the police will give on tickets... so 20kmph over the speed limit isn't something I'd see them bothering with unless it's a boring day... so to bottleneck all the babling i've done... it's all psychological, tell them they can tdoo 100 and expect 120... tell them they can do 80 and they do 100... so whatever the road and traffic is capable of minus 20kmph offa the estimate and there's your speed limit...

PS... thanks for the info on the Autobahn Noo... I was wondering about that...

Personal Attack ? I was attacking your ATTITUDE. You method of thinking, your self confessed uber training that gives you confidence.

I did not call you names, point out your physical defects or call into question your iq. Those are personal attacks.

But you missed the point, the best drivers (read racing drivers) in the world have accidents. Why? because OTHER people are not always good drivers. You should not rely on your ability to drive yourself out of the problem. The point is you MUST rely on the other guy to CAUSE the problem. That is what makes a good driver, one who drives knowing that the primary cause of an accident is over confidence in one's own ability and lack of allowance for another's ability.

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Originally Posted by Escape_Driver

But if everyone travels at 100 in an 80 Zone Why is the limit 80...

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What if they change it to 100 , will people still go 100 or will they go 120 ?
I've watched and ride'n with people that no matter what was the posted limit (from 5mph to whatever) they also seemed to add 10 to 20mph to it , I've heard many excuse's including here of ;
I was running late for (whatever) , ( so that gives you the right to increase everyone else's risk of a accident )
I want to get there in a hurry and be done with it (my question always is - if driving is such a pain , why drive ? )
I'm a good or great driver {which may include 'and I've taken' -Driver's courses , Driver's training and so on} , (most training and such is based on the given speed limit on the street-road ,surface conditions and weather , not so you can drive however you want - but to you a better chance of not being in a accident ) .
also if speed limit laws and rules shouldn't apply to you or others like you then other rules and laws shouldn't either , I mean all laws , everyone would have the freedom to speed , take what they wanted , kill who they felt like , so on .
And you can't compare Highways from one country to another , it's tough to compare traffic from one city to another because one may have more big truck traffic or bus's or were the people live and where thier work may be and shopping .
As someone may have said if you's don't like to rules or laws work on getting them change or ya'll don't like it leave .

<turning rant off now >

When I took the Defensive Driving Course here in Alaska in conjunction with my employment at the time, the first thing the instructor asked the class was "Does anyone here have a one sentence definition of defensive driving?"

Mine was "Never trust anyone the other side of the windshield".

His was "Never assume that another driver will do the right thing".

He uses both now, and so do I.

Just as some end users do really stupid things to computers, some people do really stupid things behind the wheel.

Those laws are there to protect us from those people.

I, for one, do not wish to be one of them. So I obey traffic laws, even though I can cite an "arbitrary" speed limit change locally.

There is a road that used to be 50mph here, and it was 2 lanes. Last year, it was widened to 4 lanes, and the speed limit was lowered to 40mph. Now I am unsure who is responsible for setting that limit, but they did so, and I drive 40mph there now.

Citizenship carries responsibility.

good point Noo.... how many people here actually trust indicators?

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Originally Posted by arch0nmyc0n

good point Noo.... how many people here actually trust indicators?

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In Florida? You must be bloody joking! :D

Thank god we're out of season now and all the snow birds have pissed off back up north. I personally believe that the clicking noise that indicator lights make should get progressively louder in cars where the owner is over 65 :thumbs:

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Originally Posted by Titchski

In Florida? You must be bloody joking! :D

Thank god we're out of season now and all the snow birds have pissed off back up north. I personally believe that the clicking noise that indicator lights make should get progressively louder in cars where the owner is over 65 :thumbs:

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Amen. My father started missing the turn signal clicking about two years ago (to be fair, his truck has no AC so he drives around with the windows down). There needs to be driving tests yearly for the over 65 crowd. For instance, my grandmother has no night vision, has had at least one stroke, possibly two, and still has her license.

To quote Chief Wiggum from the Simpsons: "It's ironic that the old people are kept alive by the organs of the young people they run over."

Back and ready for more.

So by your logic we should give a licences to every one and no not can drive over 20 MPH...

Sorry but there are many Rural sections of Interstate Highway that should have the speed limits opened up. 85th Percentile Speed Limits: Numerical speed limits based on a scientific survey of free flowing vehicle speeds. The speed at which 85 percent of the vehicles are traveling at, or below, is the 85th percentile speed. This makes more sense to me.


And before you say it NOT SCHOOL ZONES, in citys or towns or areas where it presents a danger...

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Originally Posted by Escape_Driver

Back and ready for more.

So by your logic we should give a licences to every one and no not can drive over 20 MPH...

Sorry but there are many Rural sections of Interstate Highway that should have the speed limits opened up. 85th Percentile Speed Limits: Numerical speed limits based on a scientific survey of free flowing vehicle speeds. The speed at which 85 percent of the vehicles are traveling at, or below, is the 85th percentile speed. This makes more sense to me.

And before you say it NOT SCHOOL ZONES, in citys or towns or areas where it presents a danger...

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So to remove the hidden tax of speed limits, you are proposing expensive and widespread surveys of large amounts of rural interstate? Yeah, I'm just fine with going 75 if thats the option.

P.S I'm not trying to get every one angry here.. I'm looking for a good discusion of facts and opinion.. I think this is one of the best lounge threads I have seen in a while..

So. Don't get angry just post your ideas and coments :) :thumbs:

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Originally Posted by jaeger

So to remove the hidden tax of speed limits, you are proposing expensive and widespread surveys of large amounts of rural interstate? Yeah, I'm just fine with going 75 if thats the option.

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Yep they survey the Interstate every year looking for repairs and new dangers... Nothing new about that...


P.S Keep it up you are very hard to argue with.... Your making me have to work hard...

P.S when did I say NO speed limits ???

My parents Jeep has a function that if the indicator is on to long it beeps loudly... about time....

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Originally Posted by Escape_Driver

P.S when did I say NO speed limits ???

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It is an implication. You have said several times that "Speed limits = taxes." The implication here is that they are an unjust and secretive tax. The logical extension is that they should be removed. Combine that with references to the unregulated sections of the autobahn, and you are talking about removing speed limits on interstates. You say training could make up for the decreased safety at higher, unregulated speeds. I say that the solution is a hell of a lot more expensive than the problem. Essentially, mandatory advanced driver training is a ticket that everyone pays because a small minority wants to drive faster. That is not cool in my book. I am content with the speed limit the way it is so you need to offer some benefit to me in order to change my opinion. You can't, because your entire arguement rests on your desire to drive faster.