[RESOLVED] Is Microsoft really crazy?

I was talking with a friend of mine at the shop today, and he tells me how his friends is a beta tester for Microsoft Whistler. I haven't read much on it but it's to my understanding Whistler is Windows 2000 and Mellinium combined, good for home and office use, and that there is a Whistler Workstation and Server. Is it me or didn't Windows 2000 Professional, Windows 2000 Server and Windows Me just come out less than a year ago? Now Micro$oft is releasing another line of Operatings systems? What's up with this?

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If I can't beat you, I'll run you off the road.

Microsoft defies the laws of reality. They haven't released a stable OS in a decade and not only are they still in business, their a frickin' monopoly. With their distribution system it doesn't matter if they release one-up the same OS every month, they'd still sell a s***load of copies.

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Life isn't one damn thing after another, it's the same damn thing over and over.

The OS, in order to be stable, needs decent hardware...it amazes me how many people here trash Windows...I've got hundreds of clients running very solid with only rare lockup/failures. Choose the right parts that have good manufacturer driver support and quit bitching about crashes for good...much easier on the stress levels too...

Unfortunately problems are quite often very much software-related as well as hardware-related.

In bare-bones configurations, Windows generally does relatively well.

Put the system under a load of software, resident processes, and hardware I/O though, and throw in driver software from vendors who could care less whether it crashes every 12 hours, and you've got one hell of a witches' brew.

The simple fact of the matter is that Windows is huge. More code = more bugs, any way you slice it.

MS don't care about stability or bugs, they care about adding more features as fast as possible to drive the market to produce more money for them. This is the rule commercial software has proven time and time again; you can sell features, but you can't sell quality.

Linux and BeOS OTOH (in a desktop comparison) are designed for stability and reliability ESPECIALLY in high-load/demand situations. However, their development time has been longer than Windows and features added slower, so Joe Consumer isn't really about to jump on the boat for either.

MS software is all about (commercial-oriented) features. Linux and Be are all about proper design.

It's a simple choice, no reason to yell and scream for one or the other, or hate MS, or say Linux/Be sucks because you can't play Starcraft.

You want the latest gadgets and features, go MS. You want mission-critical stability and a reliable system, go elsewhere.

Personally I choose the latter, but I tire of the 'who's better' debate for operating systems. Use what works for you. That's what a OS is for. To -work for you-, not get in your way. If Windows crashes too much, use something designed for stability instead. If there's no software you can use for Linux, go Windows and buy a commercial package for whatever you need.

Whatever it takes for you to operate, should be your operating system.

I operate best at a commandline with a keyboard. DOS box is always open under windows, and I know and use nearly every shell keyboard shortcut. Naturally with linux i'm at home in a console.

It doesn't matter though, even the most stable of Windows systems will be rebooted on a weekly basis. This is unacceptable for development work so we do our testing elsewhere obviously.

My pesronal beleif is that both windows and its hardware are faulty. Microsoft blames in on the hardware and the hardware people blame in on Microsoft. This will always happen until either Microsoft releases a stable operating system or hardware companies release extremely good hardware. That way it will hopefully force the other company to improve thier product. I somehow don't see that in the future though.

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.·°Danrak°·.
Do you need a silencer if you are going to shoot a mime?

Quote:

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Originally posted by sowulo:
I've got hundreds of clients running very solid with only rare lockup/failures.

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THen why are they clients? aren't you in the business of fixing computers? https://forums.windrivers.com/
l'm kidding, of course.

l do think it is pretty much an accepted thing, that Windows is just not stable. Operating Systems aren't supposed to crash from writing term papers and going on AOL, ever. If it only happens once a year, it still isn't stable. Do you judge the stability of a car by the fact it doesn't burst into flames while parallel parking? Or judge the quality of your new television by the fact the screen doesn't lock up, or that "Friends" comes on at the same time every week?

Windows is great at what it does: looking good, and having tons of software available.

Windows is bad at what UNIX/Mac/everyone else does: Working to full potential with normal (ie: not a PIII with 128mb RAM) hardware.


Like runderwo said...decide what is more important; commercial software, or stability, and use that.

The following .sig has nothing to do with the previous post: https://forums.windrivers.com/



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Either drop the Windows out of your computers, or drop your computers out of the windows.
BreakWindows

Where would you go to get a beta version of this? I'd kind of like to try it out. Hmmm, I wonder if Gates has had it tested on a 386 yet? We'd have to do something about IE5.5, that's for sure...

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I was going to be a procrastinator, I just never got around to it.

whisler huh..... oh brother i just got ME darn Microsoft...i can never get ahead of them.... i think that i shall just keep "whistling" along by and stick with 98 and NT

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Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him to use the net and he will not bother you for weeks.

I am not a zealot to any company, but I hear lots of Windows bashing. In my personal life, I run a variety of OSes, and the best so far has been Win2K Pro. As I tend to run pretty standard hardware, I rarely see instability issues under any platform. Granted, I do not get the insane frame rates, blinding speed, ect. of other stuff, but I have very little down time, too. As for the comment "Any Windows machine must be rebooted at least once a week", that is simply untrue. I have 3 boxes that have not been down in 3 1/2 months, and two of them are running 98. Maybe the keyboard-chair interface does have something to do with it...

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Is the damn thing plugged in, is the damn thing turned on?

Jaeger, when did Microsoft ever release a stable OS, I am still waiting for that to happen. Microsoft spends to much time putting bells and whistles in there OS's than making them stable good running platforms. I don't want my OS to be the highlight of my system. I want the stuff I add to it to be the bells and whistles. Thats what is so great about Linux, no bells, no whistles, just an extremly stable OS!!!

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We may be through with the past, but the past is not through with us.

Supposedly Whistler will be NT for the home. My understanding is that it will operate on the NT kernel, providing the *cough* stability typically found in NT/Win2k
According to one conversation I had with an MS rep, they wish to remove the confusion of which OS to purchase. There seemed to be a lot of misunderstanding what Win2k could and would do and I fielded a lot of questions from people wanting to upgrade their home win95 boxes to Win2k cuz someone down at the local office supply store thought it would be a great idea. Per this conversation with the MS rep..the goal is to have the consumer see Windows OS available on the store shelve..one labeled clearly business and the other home. Who knows..maybe they're on to something.

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Now...if I could only defrag my brain...

Lore
Now admitting I got interested in computers at the end of DOS, DOS seemed stable, or at least it's never crashed on me. But, like I said, I don't have a ton of experience with it.

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Life isn't one damn thing after another, it's the same damn thing over and over.

You mean, MS actually wants to mainstream?! https://forums.windrivers.com/
I think that this whole ME/2K thing is way too confusing for the average bonehead...er...customer.
I had one bon...customer come in and say, "I was told not to buy Windows 2000."
"Well, these systems don't come with Windows 2000. They come with Windows Millenium Edition."
"My son told me that Windows 2000 wasn't any good."
"These system's don't come with Windows 2000. Windows 2000 is for business use, and Windows ME is for home use."
"Oh. I heard that there was a lot of problems with Windows 2000."
(blood vessel pops in my forehead) "These systems DON'T HAVE WINDOWS 2000!"
"Oh. Have you heard of any problems with Windows 2000?"
"Ok... Maybe you aren't getting this. 2000 is for business use. ME is for home use. EVERY operating system that Microsoft releases has problems. If you run old hardware and software, Windows ME will have problems. If you run new hardware and new software, there shouldn't be any major problems with it."
"Oh. Is it possible to get the systems without Windows 2000?"
"SIGH! I'll see what I can do..."

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***the Beast
- Fate drove me here...then told me to get out of the car...

Quote:

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Originally posted by theBeast:
You mean, MS actually wants to mainstream?! https://forums.windrivers.com/
I think that this whole ME/2K thing is way too confusing for the average bonehead...er...customer.

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It's not always the customer that gets confused. It took about two weeks to get my bosses to realise the difference between windows 2000 and windows ME. I think they finnaly got it though.


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.·°Danrak°·.
Do you need a silencer if you are going to shoot a mime?

No! I really don't think crazy is the word I would ues for Micro$oft, I think bringing out a new system that is said to be the best of both worlds NT & Windows Now before the Breakup hearings in Federal Court, Is a smart move on there part. With the security of NT and the ease of use of Windows they can cover the market that they all ready control, plus get a jump on other systems that are trying to develope new O/S's. And also beef up there War chest. Oaky maybe Crazy like a Fox!!! But not crazy, I would recomend a Marketing class if you realy think Micro$oft is crazy. So need it or not you and I are going to have to learn another new system!

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If all else fails read the directions !

Quote:

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Originally posted by jimmr13:
No! I really don't think crazy is the word I would ues for Micro$oft, I think bringing out a new system that is said to be the best of both worlds NT & Windows

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l don't think "best of both worlds" is the phrase you wanted to use here....as far as POSIX compliance and security/stability is concerned, NT is a watered-down, MS-ifyed version of BSD. Now, they are watering it down even further, to make it more idiot-friendly...the role of a networked OS is NOT to be easy; if it is easy to use, chances are it is easier exploited.
NT4 was almost good, it was mildly secure out of the box...but make that more "user friendly", which in MS-terms means "add 10 more background processes that add a pretty GUI to a task", and you've made a stable OS into a RAM-soaking insecure mess.



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Either drop the Windows out of your computers, or drop your computers out of the windows.
BreakWindows

Micro$oft, like many other software companies, have to come out with a 'new' version at least once a year, just to keep people buying their product.

It's all about cash flow...



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MadDog

Quote:

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Originally posted by BreakWindows:
l don't think "best of both worlds" is the phrase you wanted to use here....as far as POSIX compliance and security/stability is concerned, NT is a watered-down, MS-ifyed version of BSD. Now, they are watering it down even further, to make it more idiot-friendly...the role of a networked OS is NOT to be easy; if it is easy to use, chances are it is easier exploited.
NT4 was almost good, it was mildly secure out of the box...but make that more "user friendly", which in MS-terms means "add 10 more background processes that add a pretty GUI to a task", and you've made a stable OS into a RAM-soaking insecure mess.

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I think what they are shooting for is a O/S that is more stable and secure than Win 98.
and more cash flow! But I could be wrong! https://forums.windrivers.com/
All thou I did group Bata test win/98se and Win/2000 for Micro$oft. And they have helped pay my bills for a very long time! https://forums.windrivers.com/ But I could be wrong ! I know why don't someone ask Uncle Bill ! https://forums.windrivers.com/ https://forums.windrivers.com/ https://forums.windrivers.com/ https://forums.windrivers.com/ https://forums.windrivers.com/ https://forums.windrivers.com/


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If all else fails read the directions !

[This message has been edited by jimmr13 (edited December 07, 2000).]

i was a tester for win2k and 98 and 95 and ive droped from trying anymore .. i even didnt renew my msdn stuff .. personally im totally against this new .net crap they are doing .. although i use win2k and actually enjoy it .. and would recommend it to people .. im not happy in the way things and computer business is going .. maybe its time for me to drop out and go into another field... my choice is why pay a membership to have a online hard drive access to your own files ...

Get this Microsoft released Win95 then 95 OSR/2, 98 then 98 OSR/2, then ME, am I right to say that there is probable gonna be a Win ME OSR/2 which is better than the one now???

Quote:

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Originally posted by kennethstarrfp:
Get this Microsoft released Win95 then 95 OSR/2, 98 then 98 OSR/2, then ME, am I right to say that there is probable gonna be a Win ME OSR/2 which is better than the one now???

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Actually, it's gonna be (better be) Win2000 OSR/2 which should be a lot better. https://forums.windrivers.com/ Not WILL...SHOULD. We're talking about determing the intent of Microsoft, not what the actual ballot says (The actual ballot has a hanging blue screen on it. ;D)



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Bryan Pizzuti
CompTIA A+, CNAP
[email protected]