Tech Employment Info

Wondering how important certification / school training is in the field in regards to employment?

A little background: I have owned/operated a computer repair/upgrade/custom build store front for over 4 years now. It is a one man operation, I do it all and have focused on home machines, with dos ; win 3.1/11 ; win 95; and win 98 (very little networking). I am 100% self taught (not even a friend to ask questions), When I started I would pull my hair out for weeks on a problem that should have only taken a few minutes, but I didn't give up and learned a lot (haven't had a machine beat me yet). Now I find myself solving problems for the techs I purchase equipment from. Also I get a lot of customers from other computer shops around the area that cannot solve their problems. Overall I now consider myself to be a skilled tech from what I've encountered in the field.

My question is, how important does the industry consider school training, certification etc.., compaired to experence in regards to employment / salary? How do you think I might fair based on the limited background I provided above??

I'm A+ certified, and like you, a one man operation. I am self taught Windows NT, and deal with a lot of major networks for big companies with at least 30+ computers.
I do all of my work on-site, and I do not advertise. My advertisement is word-of-mouth.
If your good at what you do, then you should have no problem getting your customers to write out a letter of recommendation. These type of achievements would be just as good or better than any certification.

It all depends on what kind of job too. For me, being fresh out of only one year of college, it's been real hard finding a computer job. I too am self taught, and have ventured a little into the small business. But without a full degree or some certification (I personally don't like it...but the money would be nice) I was getting either shot down, or offered $.50 over minimum wage. But thankfully I found a new business that needs someone with real experience and not just book smarts. But I know that at big companies (IBM, HP, etc), they are very stingy to un-certified people.

I agree with Eagle - satisfied home users give you a pat on the back and tell you that you are a genius.

Satisfied companies pay the $$.

I also do alot of onsite work for businesses with 20+ workstations and Eagle is right. If you DO it right, then clients will be happy to recommend you.

Certification is way overrated (esp. MCSE with its boot camps - what a joke.)
On the same note - it never hurts to have that piece of paper.

I am MCP, A+, as well as a few vendor certs. Get the real world experience first, then back it up with as many certifications as you can get your hands on. BTW, the new CCNA test is about to be out in Beta, and will be FREE thru the end of March at Sylvan centers.
shawn

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I ripped the head assembly out - it spins up fine now...

[This message has been edited by shawnMt (edited February 16, 2000).]

I think if you can pass the test and have the real world expertise behind you - then take them. We all enjoy the ability to show these certifications. One day you may want to apply for a big job, this would truly count on a resume if you are compared to someone else...

Good luck

I personaly feel that a college education is a waste of not only time, but major money. I have been working w/ computers since I was 10 1/2 years old. I started back when the Commodore Vic-20 was hot! LOL Since then I have worked for many companies doing computer related service. I started w/ Radio Shack when I was 17 and that is where I got a lot of my hands on experience w/ the pc market. I used to rip the new machines apart as soon as they hit the store! I would then teach the Dallas-Ft. Worth support a few tricks about the systems that they said couldn't be done! :-) The only actual degree I have is my highschool diploma. Everything else has been all hands on. I personally feel that this is the only true way to learn how to work and repair systems. Any college course teaches you how to do networking w/ Windows 3.11 for workgroups on a 486SX/25! Lot of help this will do when you get out in the job market and run into your first Win95/98 network job! LOL Bottom line, college and all the extra certifications are a bunch of overhyped toilet paper! LOL I worked w/ a guy who supposedly had a 4 year degree in computer science! All good if thats the field you want. But he knew squat about actually repairing pc's correctly! I spent close to a month fixing all the machines he messed up in the short month that I worked w/ him! As for me, I feel that piece of 8 1/2" X 11" paper only means that you are certified to know how to mess things up worse than they already are! Word of mouth is the best kind of advertisement you can get. I have a very large client database due to word of mouth. If you know your stuff, then people will come to you. They don't really care if you have a piece of paper or not.

I gotta tell you guys - certification does
count - a lot of jobs out not counting the one-man shops require certs. if more than one person applies for a job (i can you from experience) that the cert will get the eye.
and education is a biggie as well...since receiving a degree, my income has increased quite a bit. just a couple of things to ponder..........

I, too, have been killing PCs since I was young. I got my start with an Atari 800 when I was 13, so I was practically over the hill (-: I started my own business when I was 19 and in college (pursuing a degree in music performance, of all things!) and I dropped out of college when the money got to be too good and the business was taking all of my time. But at the age of 24 I was facing a dilemna: I didn't know HOW to run an actual business. I was making quite a bit of money but working 80+ hours a week and facing the reality of having to (gasp) hire someone! I started shopping my services around, looking for someone to hire me. Because I had no formal education, was completely self taught, and only worked for myself (business references were never checked, much to my dismay), I was never seriously considered. So I quit altogether, went to a 10-month trade school to get enough Novell to pass my CNA exam (I'd been implementing and supporting NetWare for about 4 years by then, but I wanted to get the by-the-book education so I could pass the cert exam), and got my CNA. Since then I have had NO problems getting jobs. Last August, some four years after I got my CNA, I finally passed exam number 7 for my CNE, and I found myself on the happy end of many new perks, including raises, bonuses, and commission. I have to tell you, from a business standpoint, certifications help. The client sees the certifications and it gives him or her a warm feeling inside, that they are not getting a hack. No matter what people may think of "Paper CNEs" or "Paper MCSEs", the fact remains that the certification shows that you have a sound knowledge in THAT arena. Now, I have known MCSEs who couldn't upgrade RAM in a PC, and I've known CNEs who couldn't install Windows 95. But you can not lump all certified professionals into one category and say that they are all worthless. I take particular offense to that. Bottom line is that experience may be more important, but couple it with a certificate and you have a recipe for advancement in the IT industry.

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R. Bret Walker, CNE

OK guys, thanks for the input. I'm looking for somekind employment now - tired of all the paperwork (selfemployed) and slow sales lately - don't know if it will be computer work or what but one can only try.

On another note, I hope not but some of you guys have me thinking I'm overthehill in this field. I started with computers after I retired from the Army (20 years) in 93' (before that claimed to be computer illiterate) I bought a 286 (used mail order) and crashed it the first 5 minutes I had it. Took me a month, no disks, knowldege, etc... but I got it up and that was my start. Anyway am wondering what the average age of computer repair techs is (I'm 46).

Thanks again.

Bling Bling 19! Seriously...19. At the moment I am the only tech in the store, but in a few months, we'll be hiring another one, and then I'll be HEAD TECHNICIAN! Wow...I just love it!

25 yrs old. Been kicking machines around since I was 18 or so. My parents bought me an IBM (386) for graduation and I tore it up every way you can imagine. Didn't have a "computer friend" to fix it so I had to do it myself. That was my start.

BTW - I'm MCP, A+, HP Certified, and MS Preinstallation Specialist (woo-hoo I got a certificate!) 5 yrs PC exp, 2 yrs network exp.

Shawn

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I ripped the head assembly out - it spins up fine now...

I'm 20 years old, and have been working in the computer industry for 2 1/2 years. I Did an A Level in IT Tech, an A+ cert, and a few NT admin / core tech courses.
After 4 weeks work experience (paid of course) in an IT recruitment company, they employed me full time. Since then, I've worked internally, supporting over 200 users in a team environment. And for the last 2 years, I've worked all around the country doing support work through my original employer. It's great. Experience is essential. However, some of the guys I work with are 40+, and know a damn site more than me. I find though that us young-ones have a better approach to problems, and can think laterally. I hate it when older people quit their job, and gain full MCSE status, earn mega bucks, and know "f" all.

Good luck

Well, I'm 30 now, and started professionally when I was 18. In fact, my first job was building a PC for a classmate in February of '88, just about 12 years ago. I guess he liked his service...and I certainly liked his patronage...He was the best man at my wedding and is the godfather of my two children! (-:


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R. Bret Walker, CNE

34 - and female. I paint my tools pink, but they get stolen anyway. Certification is practically required in CT for companies (preferred is the gentle way of putting it). No college to speak of, no certification, but tons of gumption, guile and skill won't get you further than $10 per hour.

AM 46, 12 YEARS SELF TAUGHT, SELF EMPLOYED,
HAVE FIXED MORE NETWORKS & MACHINES THAT HAVE BEEN MESSED UP BY "CNA,CNE,MSCE,A+, AND NEIGHBORHOOD GURUS(YOUNG PUNKS)" THAN I WANT TO THINK ABOUT, THEY WILL COME IN ASK ADVICE, I GIVE IT TO THEM, THEY LEAVE MUMBLING ABOUT "DUMB OLD FART", RETURN A WEEK OR 2 LATER, "CAN YOU FIX IT AND RETRIEVE MY DATA"
I AM TIRED OF "COLLEGE DEGREES AND CERTIFICATION PAPERS" YOU WILL EITHER BE ABLE TO DO IT OR NOT

I am 39 and a female. Have always been into fixing things and have been working on computers for almost 10 years. During that 10 years raised 3 kids, had Some college and a lot of work out of my home, sometimes payed sometimes not..but a great time for learning. Now I work in a small computer shop and I can't believe that I get paid to Play on computers all day, I love it I want certificates, but can't get the money together. I work part time.

I am 22 adn work for a large international company in canada. Have a diploma from college and and working toward my MCSE.
Personally I agree with the monetary beifits for Certification. But as for showing what you know they are STUPID. Both MCSE's that I have known seem to have read a book and them passed the tests without ever having touched a PC. Very frustrating as well as making it hard not to lump all mcse;s into one idiotic group. I sure there are lots of great ones out there adn I am just unfortunate.

But My salary rightnow is great considering my background...

Luke Bellamy

My personal belief if that certification counts a lot. I am currently MCP (soon to be MCSE), CNA, A+, Network +, OCP (Oracle), Oracle DBA. And I currently just opened a website (www.infoknowhow.com) about 1 month ago or so and I work full time and go to college (freshman) full time. I can tell you from my experience that no one gives a flying monkeys @ss about who has a degree and who doesn't. I am 19 years old and having been having many companies fighting over me to get me hired. I however have been turning them down in hopes that I might get a raise or a promotion at my current job and position (Systems Engineer - Oracle, Novell Netware 4.11, NT 4.0 Server/workstation, and other misc software). So as for this, I think certifications and knowing your stuff is really worth it. I am currently the boss of two hardware techs and a printer operator at my company and I got there by proving that I knew more than anyone there and that I was a fast learner. Well I have nothing more to say, I don't want to sound like I am bragging, but its the simple truth that I think experience is muchhhhhh more needed than a degree. I will continue to pursue my degree, however I think that its a waste of money and time. I don't need a piece of paper to tell the world that I am NOT a dumbsh*t and that I have jumped through all the hoops they wanted me to hop through.

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<A HREF="http://www.InfoKnowHow.com
E-mail:" TARGET=_blank>www.InfoKnowHow.com
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Put your egos away. Here's what it all boils down to: experience and years in the field tell your prospective employer what you can and cannot do. Certifications allow your employer to show your CLIENTS what you can do. Certs matter to the clients, experience matters to your employer. That's about it in a nutshell.

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R. Bret Walker, CNE

Not sure I agree with you there bret. It depends upon the employer. Most companies when you are hired know no technical stuff ( I know mine doesn't). So you are interviewed by 1 or 2 people who you are speaking greek too. For this type of job some certification will help imensley (sp?) as well as you experience.
There are other jobs though where you are interviewed by someone technical and then all teh certification in the world will not help...
Thats my 2 cents.

Luke Bellamy

I've been reading the post on this subject for quite awhile and I find it very interesting. I think Bret makes a very good point regarding certification vs experience and how each are viewed by employers and customers. I agree..

I own a computer shop. I do most of the tech work myself and hold no certifications. I don't want to sound like a smart aleck but I spend a good deal of time repairing systems that other techs can't fix. Including certified techs... Just yesterday I made a SIMPLE repair that two different certified techs from another company had worked on twice before with no success.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against certification. I plan on getting certified myself someday. Hopefully soon. But from what I've seen, experience and ability is everything and certification can't replace that. Either you can fix computers or you can't.......period!!!

I am aware that many large companies require certification for employment. If that is their policy then so be it. But I know one thing for sure. If those companies hire technicians based strictly on certification without checking out their abilities, they deserve what they get!! I've interviewed "certified techs" fresh out of school that aren't sure how to install a ribbon cable on a hard drive. Seen it first hand.

It comes down to experience and knowledge. Lets face it, you can repair computers without that piece of paper, but not without the knowledge..

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I'd rather be lucky than smart!!

Not being smart; but now I, a scientist send a request to install "something" in my computer or fix something on a machine to run on the network better or fix the machine period, I look to see if it works, and may be interested in "what" you are doing. Bottom line to me is does it work and how well, and if it doesn't then I am looking for answers from 'experts', so you are in an elite group having come along already, get the certifications there is no way to learn everything hands on and you can maybe pick up something from an expert; and that will get you the promotion or letter of recommendation (just using these words), as that is what you get. These guys hiring are not looking to be hit in the face, and you may assume they were where you are at one time and they thought they new it all. But this business is limited only by the short comings and everyone has a limit, the trick is that it can't be proven that you have a limit.

Just found a site www.brainbench.com that has free computer technician certification testing online. Just for the heck of it I took the test cold. According to Brainbench I am now a certified Computer Technician. The test only took about 20 minutes, you have up to 45 minutes. Just thought some of you guys and gals might want to check it out.

See I don't know. I'm a tech and have been for about 6 years now. While I went to college and got my degrees they were in English Literature and Speech. All the computer work I've done has been on my own Without a single Cert. I've worked on home systems and small companies to being a project lead dealing with 7,000+ machines in multiple domains and WANs. Certs are great but at the same time a lot of companies differ. For example when I contracted out here in the Bay Area of Cal I found that Certs are a bit more important to the employer. However When I contracted out in Florida and New York Certs didn't matter as much as how much experience and expertise you have. it just depends on the IT market in your area and your own skills. If your looking to improve yourself try contracting out it takes a bit of time and you don't get much money at first but after a while you can get the bucks. But again it all depends on the market around you and what they're looking for. And don't be afraid to get a couple of low bid contracts a lot of times they help you gain more and more experience. However if I were you try going for your MCP or at least get a copy of the MCSE books to learn. Don't forget the golden rule of thumb in IT if you aren't learning your dead.

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Peace Through Zen blood!

Just turned 40 and also female, used to have a pink screw driver no guy would be caught dead with but it finally disappeared too...not too many women in the hardware end of the computer biz. I have my A+, but got it after the fact cuz the company I worked for then paid for it and I figured it was pretty to have =) Anyway, I was in Electronic Assembly all my working life, doing PCs on the side since like 1990, my first pc a Decstation316 so no old-timey stuff really...no one I knew could fix or upgrade them and I wanted a sound card and 2X cdrom (the new thing - only $369 for the kit) so I figured it out for myself, and just kept learning and doing ever since, had a good reputation fixing peoples PCs so when a PC Support tech job came up at my old company in 97 I posted for it and was accepted for pretty decent $, with no prior actual employment in the field.
Now this year I went for a tech job with a public school district, they hired me for the same money I was making for 40hrs before I am making only working 20 hrs wk\10mos, and next year goes full time (which is 35 hrs there)at double the money and exc benefits, lots of time off.... so it has all worked out. I do know that my A+ did help me get this job, because they kept mentioning it and since a lot of the people who interview you don't know computers at all, a cert is definitely a good thing in their eyes. Be brave and go for the jobs, write a REALLY great cover letter with your resume telling them what you can really do, did the trick for me twice now, hey, you never know ...and now (at least around here in Connecticut, USA) there are finally starting to be quite a few ads in the paper most of the time.... so finally our time may be coming where we can make better money. I want to eventually open a business maybe, want to get some network certs...
the guy they just hired as tech coordinator here is making $67K and he's only 30 and I actually know more PC stuff, but he has more network (no cert tho either)I'm picking up more everyday tho, give me another year or so.....
Good Luck




[This message has been edited by JeanneD (edited March 13, 2000).]

Well, I guess I got lucky. I am 29, female, and a Criminology major in college. I'll graduate with my Batchelor's in December. I worked as a part-time tech in a small shop for 2 years then got hired to work for county government as a network/pc tech. Our govt has 700+ PCs on a Novell network with connectivity to a Unix mainframe and fiber to all our outlaying areas. I've been with the county for about 1 1/2 years and I learn something new every day! My senior tech has been in computers for about ten years. He has his CNE and is probably the best hardware tech I've ever seen or spoken with. I'm testing for my A+ and MCP in May. My employer places a lot more emphasis on knowledge and experience than certifications. Who knows what is more important? All I know is that I play with computers all day and get paid for it. I love my job!

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TechieChick

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Byte Me!

I am 50 years old. Been fixing PC's since they came out. Get the education. Education = $$$,$$$.$$. 6 figures is always better than 5.

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Insanity runs in my family, in fact it practically gallops.

last words from me anyway...my father was a mechanic and a very good one and you could tell by his work that he was trained, not that he didn't practice...without getting into specifics like micrometers gears and bushings and linkages...you simply can't learn it all fast enough..my words not to be mistaken for someone who has made any mistakes with gears or "bearings"...get the cert ... when you run into something you learned in the classroom it will make it that much easier...you can pack those wheel bearings for 2.50 no problem right the trainer did that and that ..and get on to those multiple monitors for 300.oo a piece..my words not to be confused with HP or microsoft....you will know thousanth of an inch win.ini system.ini and bootlog.txt and it will be inherent...you will go in and set up a network like you were there structuring CERN ..bits and pieces right. Well I think that is what the employer is likely to believe..when he hires you to 'rebuild' his current network he wants to believe that you will know if the kit you are using, 'kit' right, will be missing pieces that makes it essentially practically useless and still in disrepair.....cert..

Just a question regarding all of you techs out there....

What is the average monthly salary for techs like you guys/gals out there? I say average since some work for yourselves while others work for companies?

Carlos

I am 19 years old, the head tech of a rapidly growing computer company in Winnipeg, and I make about $30000 a year. Remember- that's canadian dollars, so that works out to about $5 US per year. https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif

The A+ Cert is useless. Have it. Anyone can get it. I found out after I got it I wasted my money. Start at MCP and work from there.

I do a lot of hiring of technicians. I can tell you that the most important thing is the interview and not any certification. If I feel during the interview that you don't know what you are talking about, I don't care if you have 800 certifications. For desktop technicians, part of the emphasis that I really look for is customer service. I don't want some snot nosed anti -social computer dork to go to my customers.

Quote:

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Originally posted by jerrard:
I do a lot of hiring of technicians. I can tell you that the most important thing is the interview and not any certification. If I feel during the interview that you don't know what you are talking about, I don't care if you have 800 certifications. For desktop technicians, part of the emphasis that I really look for is customer service. I don't want some snot nosed anti -social computer dork to go to my customers.

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Right now I am only 18, but I have an ok tech job working for the government. I can tell you, Certifications Count, at least to most bosses I have met. I think most of them are pure crap, but my boss is sure that I need them to prove what I can do and so I can get a real pay raise. Also, when applying for other jobs, I got shot down every time because I didn't have a college degree and/or any certifications. So if you know the stuff, get the paper saying you do so you can at least get paid well were ever you go.

yeah yeah you are so smart, but you can't even make a simple hyperlink.
(the link to your website in your signature is messed up)

I'm on the job hunt right now and found something very cool out. If you don't have the education but you do have the knowledge, you can go to like a "temp" agency such as manpower or edgesource and a lot of other companies, they can get you in the ground floor or better of a company even though you are under qualified by the companies standards such as Cisco, IBM, Nortel, but since you are a "temp" you are not expected to know as much as the permanent employees, but most temps if they have the knowledge and the drive are hired permanently into the company because you are already on the inside, why hire someone they don't know? Its very cool and not known by a lot of people. And temps do get benefits too, maybe not by the hiring company but by the temp agency at least.

Just asking for some input.. I am a 20/y male and I am currently attending a 2-year tech school studying CIS Computer Networking. The courses range from simple 'Computing Concepts' up to 'NT Administration and Diagnostics'. A list of classes can be viewed here..
http://www.mgti.org/networker.htm

A am currently studying for the A+ and I feel that I will do extremely well considering my wide computer background. I was wondering, from someone who came from a similar educational background, what sort of jobs or careers I can pursue and an estimated starting salary. When I finish this tech school next winter I will have a diploma in CIS Networking and hopefully the A+ with the MSCE soon to come. Thanks for any response..

im almost 20 and taking my mcse i took the a+ course but i put off the tests to concentrate on my mcse do employers also want college or is that something of days gone by? also what is the starting pay for a junior level nt admin position or a nt tech?

College eduacation and certification may matter as long as you have the following for a being a successful tech;

a https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif Always eager to learn more and more
as the technology moves on

b https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif Always eager to share information
(collaboration)

c https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif Always offer to help to the end users

d https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif experience

e https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gifAnd of course a tech must UNDERSTAND how
things work from higher level to the lower level of the PC itself,
which I always notice with some techs just do the fix by memory of how it got fixed.

This is what I've been doing for almost 4 years while Im now able to fullfill my career at my young age (19)

Im 25 and been working with computers and networks for about 5 years now. Until the past few months all I had was job experience which was great but no certs. Since I have completed my mcse almost all the jobs I have been offered always ask If I do have it. Also It has raised my salary a good amount. If I were to hire someone I would take a more experienced tech over certs. If it comes down to 2 experienced techs ... one with certs and one without. Certs just give you an edge.

MCP, MCSE