Sound card advice needed

I'm looking for sound cards right now...

I don't want to go all out spending on a sound card, I want to at least keep this under $100, but I still want a good sound card.

I've been considering either the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz or the Sound Blaster Live MP3+ 5.1.

Which one would you get? or would you get another one I haven't listed?

not looking for a sound card for gaming, as I'm not a huge gamer, it is more for music and the like...I'm also interested in messing with the MIDI inputs since i have a compatible keyboard.

Thanks! :)

I've heard only good things about the Turtle Beach, while the upper-end SB cards still have some issues in regards to some motherboards and OS.

That's a no-choice, not a real question. GET THE SB!

My board has an AMD chipset, so it doesn't have the famous VIA/Creative issues :)

I've got the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz and it is awesome! :D

dont get the SB live mp3, get the live value.
less expensive and same quality. the only difference from the mp3 and gamer are the software package that comes with it. (oh the outputs and inputs are gold, big deal :) ) :p

If money was not a problem then you'd have to check out those Event Gina/Layla, etc... cards. Perfect for recording digital audio and running to an adat recorder. I wish I had one!!!!

-aa

I like the gullimont Muse, cost me $25 has 2 audio out, and sounds really good

CREATIVE SB LIVE

When Creative Labs introduced their original Sound Blaster product they managed to rally enough support to bring a greatly desired standard to the PC Audio scene. This standard gained the name "Sound Blaster Compatibility" and the term sound remained synonymous with the Creative label. Never really stepping away from the lime light in terms of product releases Creative Labs has consistently produced new and more advanced sound cards on a consistent basis which is one sign of any successful company, product releases to keep the market's interest focused on them and them alone.

As if they were playing a strategic game of chess, Creative Labs quietly positioned their game pieces in hopes of making one major move that would send the market into a new era of sound. By acquiring a company which has often been referred to as the "Bose of the PC Speaker," Cambridge SoundWorks, Creative built the second pillar for their future knockout triumvirate. The third and final pillar, taking the load off of Creative and Cambridge SoundWorks to support the infrastructure of the triumvirate was put in place by the sound card giant's acquire of Ensoniq, the original producers of the low-cost AudioPCI sound card.

Creative's flagship sound card for quite some while was the Sound Blaster AWE64, it became the somewhat expensive standard for any PC enthusiast's ideal configuration. Breathing new life into their aging product, Creative's recently established relationship with Ensoniq proved to be a profitable one as they implemented some of Ensonic's technology into their next-generation AWE64, the AWE64D, the first Sound Blaster sound card available in a PCI interface.

At the same time Creative was introducing improved versions of the AWE64 and dropping its price, the rest of the market took the opportunity to make use of their many pawns and threaten Creative's domain. What was never taken into account is that a single well placed move can destroy eternities of actions without logic. This was made blatantly clear with Creative Lab's introduction of their Sound Blaster Live! card.

While just about every single product on the market is referred to as a "revolutionary new product" by its creators, the SB Live! actually has the potential to fulfill that one line phrase present in virtually all on-line PDF manuals on the net today. Creative Labs didn't approach the design of the SB Live! with achieving better 3D audio in mind, the obvious lack of the attention-grabber '3D' title in the product's name make it obvious that this isn't your run of the mil "look ma I can use 4 speakers" sound card, it is the Sound Blaster Live!

Airing it Live

In a recent trip to Burlingame, California, AnandTech was given a media demonstration of the capabilities of the Sound Blaster Live! card and the technology that surrounds it. Normally when a manufacturer gives a demo of their product they tend to sweeten up the system it is being demonstrated on, however when you go out to buy the card you usually don't receive all the perks of the system it was demonstrated on. It is much like being shown a house with a beautiful yard then being told that the yard doesn't come with the house at the time of the purchase. Approaching the SB Live! introduction with the attitude you should approach any manufacturer's demonstration of their product (always keep in mind that the product is average and then give it the opportunity to earn some points with you, never allow hype to build up) AnandTech received a fairly decent overview of the capabilities of the SB Live!. What makes the SB Live! what it is stem from what sets the card apart from the rest of the market, as Creative put it, the SB Live! is a total audio solution and not a single card. The demo systems Creative Labs setup for the media to take a look at weren't doctored up, they were actual SB Live! audio systems that you can go out and purchase. So what makes up the SB Live! audio system? Let's start with the card itself...

The Card

Based on the EMU10K1 Digital Signal Processor, the half length 32-bit PCI card that came out of the attractive Sound Blaster Live! packaging looks like your average PCI sound card at first. Featuring 4 gold plated output connectors on the rear panel, a midi port, 5 internal audio connectors, and a Digital I/O connector port the SB Live! makes excellent use of the small amount of real estate that is provided for on the brownish-gold printed circuit board (PCB).

The EMU10K1 DSP which is at the heart of the SB Live! is by far the most powerful DSP available on the market. How powerful is the most powerful? Where as the "powerful" Guillemot Home Studio Pro has an on-board DSP capable of processing 50 million instructions per second (MIPS), and where as the Sound Blaster AWE64's DSP is capable of around 36 MIPS, the EMU10K1 can process around 1,000 MIPS using its 2 million transistors. Using a more complex processor for sound than we used to use in computers just a few years ago, Creative made it clear that the SB Live! would be the absolute best card on the market. The first method to achieving that status would be to make sure that all audio calculations were taken care of in the sound hardware and not unloaded onto your CPU, the EMU10K1 definitely accomplishes this with style. The processor does all sound processing at 32-bits and can produce 48kHz sound using Creative's own 8-point interpolation system. Much like Matrox G200 which performs all internal graphics calculations at a higher accuracy then dithers the final result to the requested output depth instantly improving image quality, the EMU10K1 applies the same principle to sound production resulting in instantly improved sound quality, no driver support necessary.

The card itself provides for 2 or 4 speaker output configurations, however as mentioned before the card also comes with a Digital I/O connector port on the PCB. Using the supplied cable you can attach the SB Live! to its provided daughtercard which features 5 new connectors. A midi input and output port, SPDIF in/output ports, and one last digital port for a multi-channel digital amplifier. This daughtercard extends the SB Live!'s speaker support to a full 8 speaker configuration which Creative will make available at a later date. One thing that you're going to have to get used to with the SB Live! is its future expandability, its expansion features remain unparalleled by any other card in its price range to date.

For you MIDI fans out there, the SB Live!'s 256-voice MIDI synthesis capabilities should satisfy even the greatest of PC music enthusiasts. In spite of the fact that most users that will be considering the Live! won't really take into consideration MIDI support, the support is there for those who desire/need it. If you're worried about the professional qualities of the card, a PC musician emailed me with a test to conduct on the Live! card. By running a cable between the Live!'s I/O ports and attempting to play a MIDI file while recording the playback the SB Live!'s functionality as a true tool for PC musicians. Unfortunately, like all other Creative sound cards in the past, the Live! failed the test and wouldn't allow the requested test to be conducted. Looks like you can't make a product aimed for the average gamer that also pleases the high end musician.

Environmental Audio Extensions

Why doesn't Creative Labs have an A3D card like Diamond Multimedia or the rest of the "3D" sound card manufacturers? Because Creative Labs has something they like to think is better than A3D...and in a sense, it is. What Creative Labs is betting on is their custom developed API (application programming interface) entitled EAX, short for Environmental Audio Extensions.

EAX is an open API that has been provided in conjunction with Microsoft (now with MS you can't go wrong ;) ...) as a set of extensions to the DirectSound3D API. According to software developers the implementation of EAX into their programs isn't a difficult task at all, a definite plus for the market as software support is something that seems to be lacking in almost every single case where a "revolutionary" new technology is released.

What exactly does EAX implementation entail? Normally when a game programmer is writing the code for a title he/she uses the DirectSound3D API as a bridge between the software and hardware in terms of audio. The Environmental Audio Extensions provide programmers with a larger set of "instructions" to choose from by allowing for real time generation and panning effects including more realistic environment effects such as reverb and echo effects depending on the type of material the walls are made of in the room you happen to be in the game. For example, if you're playing a game which boasts EAX support (i.e. Unreal) with the SB Live! and you happen to find yourself in a room which contains 3 walls and an open area, the echo you would hear after firing a shot at one of the three walls would reflect a room with only three walls leaving an exit point for the echo where the 4th wall would be. Whereas if you were to find yourself in a completely closed area, the echo would be more continuous and feature an increased amplitude.

Creative has much confidence in the potential of their Environmental Audio Extensions, with the ease of implementation at a very attainable level there is no reason to expect EAX to be a failure of any sorts.

Environmental Audio Speakers

As mentioned earlier, Creative is selling an entire PC audio solution, not a $200 sound card. By acquiring Cambridge SoundWorks Creative managed to fund development of the ideal speaker configuration for the Environmental Audio support of the SB Live!, the PCWorksTM FourPointSurroundTM speaker system. Designed specifically for the Live! product, the FourPoint system consists of 4 satellites no larger than 3" square and a powered subwoofer. Retailing for around $99, this system will probably be the ideal choice for Live! users. The initial setup and configuration of the speakers may take a little getting used to, however that's just because of the nature of the speakers and the external volume control which plugs directly into the powered sub-woofer.

Although they look much like Bose speakers there was a noticeable difference between the high-end Bose system that was used which retails for around $899 and the $99 FourPointSurroundTM speakers, luckily the difference isn't great enough to justify the difference in cost. In comparison to the Altec Lansing ADA70 Digital Powercube Speakers, the Cambridge SoundWorks setup simply wiped the floor with the $140 USB speakers and then tidied up the place with some floor shaking bass afterwards.

The two rear channel speakers come with 12-ft cables while the other two speakers are outfitted with 9-ft cables to make setting up the system possible in just about any location. You can use the mounting brackets and screws to attach the rear speakers to your walls if you so desire. Cambridge decided to be a little too cool with their FourPointSurroundTM speaker system when they included two speaker stands for the rear speakers. Had the stands been of decent quality and construction (not to mention decent height - what are you going to do with 2' speaker stands?) the stands may have been useful, however this reviewer found himself wondering what to do with the cheap plastic tripods that kept on falling apart at even the slightest touch.

Playing EAX enhanced games and even using the Environmental Audio effects during normal audio playback was an entirely new experience with the FourPointSurroundTM speakers, the Special edition of Unreal that shipped with the card brought new meaning to the term "audio immersion" as every last shell from the rifle really sounded like it counted.

If you are looking for a little more, Creative will eventually start shipping their Desktop Theater 5.1 system which, as the name points out, is intended for use with a PC-DVD system. Taking the original FourPoint system adding a fifth channel, an amplifier, and a Dolby Digital Decoder, the Desktop Theater 5.1 will probably become the high end solution for the users that take immense pride in the quality of their sound system.

Replacing the Diamond Monster Sound MX200 in the AnandTech test system was none other than the Creative Labs SB Live! product. The half-length card had no problem fitting into any one of the open PCI slots on the ABIT BH6 Pentium II BX Motherboard for the Pentium II test system much less the cramped slots on the FIC VA-503+ which served as the Super7 test system. Using a pair of standard case screws the SB Live! card and its Digital I/O Daughtercard were installed without any real problems. Keep in mind that the ribbon cable which connects the Live! to its I/O daughtercard isn't as long as many would like it to be and you may end up rendering a slot useless for the purpose of placing the daughtercard cutout in its place. If you don't have an immediate need for the daughtercard then it is definitely best to leave it out.

Starting up the system for the first time brought up Windows 98's newly improved Hardware Detection Wizard which found the SB Live! as a PCI Multimedia Audio Device and begged for the manufacturer supplied drivers disk.

Luckily, Creative's healthy software bundle includes a driver CD which quickly began the driver installation process. A quick reboot revealed that the installation was partially successful, a few issues had to be taken care of. The Diamond Monster Sound drivers had to be manually removed using the Add/Remove Programs item, and the Creative Labs sound control panel had to be installed off of the CD so 4-speaker support could be enabled.

Creative Labs bundled a total of 3 CD's with the SB Live! and in order to get the most out of the Live!, AnandTech performed a complete install using all three of the CD-ROM disks. In spite of the ground shaking sound effects that encompassed the installation, the procedure itself was poor in quality.

Creative didn't provide a universal setup program which would setup all of the bundled applications for you, instead they provided more of a "launcher" program that simply launched other setup programs. After the lengthy install completed it turned out that a full install into a single directory (not counting the tutorials and the Unreal Special Edition) occupied around 140MB of space. Another quick reboot and the system was almost completely ready for operation, the Creative Labs speaker control panel was used to enable 4-speaker support so the full potential of the card could be tested, and you better believe that it was.

Creative included a number of wonderful utilities with the SB Live! making it a very well rounded product, the control to all of the bundled software falls under the Creative Labs Launcher Bar which is rather reminiscent of just about any other launcher bar a manufacturer has developed specifically for their product. The only difference here is that the bar actually comes in handy when toying around with the many functions of the SB Live!

The bar extends from one corner of your screen to the other, much like the Windows Task Bar. While it is best to keep it on auto-hide, the bar can be left to take up space on top of your desktop therefore disallowing any other applications to occupy that sizeable space at the top of your screen. The bar allows you to access any of your installed SB Live! programs and utilities, it lets you modify settings such as speaker output configurations and will allow you direct access to the multimedia control panel as well.

Creative's User's Manual goes into much greater depth as to the use of the studio and recording applications that come bundled with the SB Live!, however for you professionals out there, you will probably want to stick to your own software as Creative's Rhythmania may not be exactly what you're looking for. The bundled copy of Unreal Special Edition, as mentioned before, is almost reason enough to walk out of the store with one of these under your arm instead of another computer upgrade.

The SB Live! does come with Creative's standard Text/Voice Assist (voice recognition and actuation) packages, with a bit of a twist, called Prody Parrot. Prody Parrot is an artificially intelligent Parrot who occupies a little space on your desktop for training to take care of specific tasks for you (i.e. Opening MS Word at the command of your voice, etc...). While Prody isn't the world's smartest aid he can be fun to play with, especially if you have kids around that won't get frustrated with someone that won't always understand what they're saying. If you're really feeling bored you can ask Prody to have a conversation with you about movies, music, or just about anything else...then again, if Prody has no idea about what you're talking about he'll simply ridicule your command of the English language. Getting Prody to go back to sleep and get out of your hair isn't a problem provided you can speak clearly into the supplied desktop microphone that plugs directly into your SB Live!

As the "ultimate" sound card, the SB Live! doesn't leave too much more to be desired. While it isn't the professional card PC musicians may want for the $200 you'll have to throw down for this puppy, considering that no other card in its price range comes closer, the SB Live! isn't too bad of a solution for professionals with a tight budget. That price tag may be a bit high for the average gamer who just spent most of his/her savings on a Pentium II / Voodoo2 setup, however if you're going to swallow the cost of an expensive sound card it might as well be the Creative Labs SB Live!

Before going out and purchasing the SB Live! remember that it is a weak product if not used with the proper speakers, and also remember that you must want quality output from the SB Live! in order to be impressed with it. If you don't really find yourself caring about the sound your computer can produce, pick up a $40 PCI Sound Card and be happy, otherwise cough up the $299 for the entire SB Live! + FourPointSurround combination and enjoy some of the best audio available for this price on the PC today.

It has often been said that there's a hidden meaning behind every title, guessing what that hidden meaning shouldn't be that difficult now, let's see how creative the competition can get in response to the SB Live!.

Creative Labs SB Live!
------------ Pros Cons

------------ • 2/4/8 Speaker Output • Cost
------------ • 256 Voice Hardware Wavetable MIDI • Not the professional solution we would like
------------ • DirectSound, DirectSound3D, & EAX support • Infant EAX support in current game titles
------------ • Full Legacy Compatibility w/ Drivers
------------ • Powerful EMU10K1 DSP
------------ • Creative Labs name and support
------------ • Thorough User's Manual
------------ • Incredible Software Bundle
------------ • Potential for future expandability
Rating - 93% - $199.95 MSRP

________________________________________________

As you can see the SB Live kicks @$$. The site that a ripped this...er, uh....borrowed...yeah...cut & pasted this review from didn't even think the Tortoise Peach was worth even reviewing so it SUX!!!

Do yourself a favor and get a Aztech WaveRider. You'll thank yourself & not regret it later! Seriously! I'm not lying! I don't work for Aztech! Really...

You can get an Audigy 2 for $72 at www.allstarshop.com or www.newegg.com

Ok?

Why was a 3 year old thread brought back?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camaro80z

Why was a 3 year old thread brought back?

He couldn't find any four year old topics?

I had read that whole thing for nothing..... May the Fleas of a thousand camels infest your genitals !!!

Damn you guys :p j/k

Anyway, if anyone really cares 3 years later, I got an Audigy, and upgraded to an Audigy 2 ZS a little while ago. The ZS plus Klipsch speakers sounds great :thumbs:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camaro80z

Why was a 3 year old thread brought back?

How did he find a 3 year old thread? Search function only goes back a year...

Have Done alot of audio card testing in the past several months,, And NOTHING even comes close to THIS CARD
In Pure Sound quality and performance,,Makes Creatives cards look like a yugo next to a porsche~!!
Though It is intended for primarily PC recording systems,Its also a really kick :butt: Card Period.
trout

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovetheusers

How did he find a 3 year old thread? Search function only goes back a year...

Sometimes the Similar Threads feature brings them back to life and they can then be accessed.