So, has justice been done? It took way to long for this murderer to be executed? Who are they executing next? Has anyone else been convicted?
It's pretty silent around the office so far this morning.
All apologies go out to the lost ones...
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So, has justice been done? It took way to long for this murderer to be executed? Who are they executing next? Has anyone else been convicted?
It's pretty silent around the office so far this morning.
All apologies go out to the lost ones...
American style. Kill em all.
Just wait, the media/press haven't even started in yet. The media/press are setting up a huge political stage, they will exploit every last whisper.
I remember when this all happened back in my sophomore year in high school, and now around 7 years later they are finally shooting him up. Gotta say it's about damn time.
I agree Spork. I remember this was ALL I heard the whole time I was in the hospital having my son. (he was born on 4-21-95)...He's now 6..so yep..its about time!
I don't know who is next if anyone I this, but was wondering the same thing!
Quote:
Originally posted by PuterGeekGirl:
<STRONG>I agree Spork. I remember this was ALL I heard the whole time I was in the hospital having my son. (he was born on 4-21-95)...He's now 6..so yep..its about time!
I don't know who is next if anyone I this, but was wondering the same thing!</STRONG>
Well, McVeigh would never give in to the FBI or Federal Court system. They will never know the entire bomb planning nor who all was involved. All the evedence is gone.
I returned from a deployment the day the bombing happened. I pulled in about an hour after it happened. It was so unreal that I couldn't beleive it even happened. I won't express my opinion, but the sight of the kids was powerful enough.
This is sad but at least the families might get a little closure and the next kook that decides to plant a bomb might think twice. hopefully no more chidren die <if only> it would never happen again.
Whatever happened to the punishment fitting the crime? McVeigh was put to death; big deal. He got to go in his sleep. I can only hope to be so lucky when my time comes. His victims sure weren't.
IMHO, he should have had a grenade shoved up his a$$ and had the pin pulled.
Too many bleeding heart liberals for that to happen. The sad part is that his lawyers made/are making millions of dollars to defend that POS excuse for a human being..Quote:
Originally posted by Lt. Cmdr Klarg:
<STRONG>...IMHO, he should have had a grenade shoved up his a$$ and had the pin pulled.</STRONG>
Time to go now, Mr. McVeigh. No, you won't be needing a jacket.
Although I do not support the death penaulty, I would probably feel differently if this had happened to a family member.
nuff' said
Yeah, but who would clean up the mess?Quote:
Originally posted by Lt. Cmdr Klarg:
<STRONG>IMHO, he should have had a grenade shoved up his a$$ and had the pin pulled.</STRONG>
Last time we did this subject, I was one of the most vocal saying that McVeigh deserves to die a brutal, tortuous death. Well, after reading up a bit on the subject, I must say that I was wrong.
I'm not saying that I can justify his actions, and he DOES deserve to be punished, but from what I've read with interviews with McVeigh, I can't see him as the monster every portrays him to be. I instead see a bitter, bitter man who got so frustrated with the government that it drove him over the edge. McVeigh says the Gulf War, in which he served, was where it started, being forced to kill innocent women and children. Then with the Waco & Ruby Ridge incidents, he just couldn't take being ruled by a government out of control that slaughtered innocent people that didn't live up to its ideals.
McVeigh says he didn't realize the Oklahoma City building had a day care center, or he would've picked a different target. But by the same token, he resents the fact that when the US bombed the hell out of buildings in Iraq in the Gulf War, which also had day care centers, the government used the excuse that Iraq "was just using the day cares as a shield".
Before you flame, I'm just stating an opinion. I sympathize with McVeigh, but I believe he does deserve to be punished to the fullest extent the law will allow. I do feel sorry for the guy though, as I think that the double standards of the US government were what finally did him in.
There have also been reports that he did it there specifically because of the Day Care as well. In any sense, I don't think we have the right to kill anyone, just like he didn't. If someone says that he deserves to go to hell because of his sins, then let him wait for hell. Wait it out in a 8X8 concrete cell. His god will punish him once he goes. That is not our job. Also, the whole irony of killing someone to avenge the death of someone(s) is hideously outrageous. He wanted to die and we gave him what he wanted. That's why he doesn't call it an execution and, instead, calls it a state assisted suicide. Just my $0.02 but I think we should have let him rot. Hang pictures of those little kids after the bombing in his jail cell and let him look at those all day.
I have to agree fully with the last two posts. How is there more closure now that this guy was murdered? If they really wanted to make life miserable for the guy, there are a few things they could have done worse than letting him die painlessly. What would have happened to the guy if they let him out? It wouldn't be painless. Not that it would be anymore right than what they did to him. As was said above, my opinions might be different if my situation were different. Anyhow, Capital Punishment is quite a heated issue, I'm glad I live in Canada.
i say we should of chopped of his arms and legs, and let oprah sit on his face till he told us who else was involved
RATED M-17
The first thing that should have been done is to put him in a dark room with a dim light and refer to him as "we". Take away his Identity. Then Burn is tongue in one giant scar so he can no longer taste anything. Go ahead and make him watch the "sound of music" for two weeks straight. After that break every bone in his right leg to powder. Then let him have an interview on 60 minutes. After that remind him how "we" don't kill people, "we" don't kill children, "we" don't do anything unless told too. Then break "we's" left hand into powder. After about a year of watching "Faces of death" tell him stories of a Monster named Timothy McVeigh who made stuff like that happen. I say after about 5 years of that crap release him into prison and let the world know what happened. That way they can see what it is like to live like hell on earth. Let the world know what happens to creatures who pray on others! Let the world now who disgusting we are getting and how uncontrollable we are with our self's
Being an atheist and not believing in an afterlife, I think this guy was done a favor. Sitting in solitary for the rest of his life cut off from human contact would have been far more suitable. For someone like him who loved the attention of media and whatnot, a life in the hole with no contact aside from the guards would have been perfect.
Cobra, I understand where you are coming from. Remember though. He made the choice to kill all of those people in Oklahoma, not someone else. I understand now what he was so angry about – Rampant taxation, Nazi stormtrooper tactics from the ATF and FBI, Government lies to no end (remember how the Govt. told the press core that the Branch Davidians had the house wired with cordite and gasoline but it turned our to be the illegal, flammable tear gas that a tank sprayed into the house exploded and burned everyone alive – oops, sorry!). All of that combined with an apathy level of most of the American public (a huge chunk of the populace doesn’t even know who the president or the vice president are). It’s almost easy to see where a person becomes disillusioned with our current system and goes a little off his rocker. That coupled with no one ever being held accountable for the entire slaughter of those people in Waco, well… To him it seemed like the walls were crumbling and he reacted.
Another thing I have been wondering about is, why so much uproar over the taking of a childs life? Don’t get me wrong, but if there were no children there would that have made it right? Life is life, so what makes a child more precious than the 25 year old mailroom clerk or the old as dirt VP on the top floor? It bugs me to see how much people harp on the children (I love kids, don’t get me wrong) over the adults. It would seem that collectively we would somehow be less angry if only poor, old and dumb and preferably foreign people got hurt. If we blow up an aspirin factory in Sudan or bomb some people in a far off nation, well, we’re the good ol’ US of A and we should be able to bomb who we want. They shouldn’t mess with us (yeah that aspirin factory really was a real threat and poor Afghanis who Bin Laudin was no where near were a huge threat to us – good thing we hit them with cluster bombs). Shameful, shameful. To quote Chris Rock, “I wouldn’t do what he did, but I understand” <== That’s humor – no flaming allowed.
Still, if the guy really wanted to make a statement and actually cared about human life he could have spray painted a wall or raised some hell somewhere by organizing a political movement or started some political unrest to gain attention to his cause. At the very least he could have waited until nighttime for most if not all of the staff to be out of the building. The man obviously cared little to nothing for the taking of human life he reported to be so angry about.
No Thanks Aplus...I'll not support a mass murderer for the rest of his life at 35K+ a year with my tax dollars when the injections cost a helluva lot less and besides I'd rather my money go elsewhere, like food for the hungry or decent medical care or helping to fight the hundreds of illnesses that afflict law abiding citizens. And although, like Cobra, I sympathize with what he was going through, once you take up arms against innocents you have lost all sense of righteousness.
I'm not going to get into the whole religion thing cause that is just TOO confusing. eye for an eye/ judge not lest ye be judged...there are way to many contradictions. And while you can find support for NOT executing anyone I can find support FOR execution in the same bible nonetheless.
But my point is still...my point. Like it or not the man is a terrorist who chose a building full of gov employees. These people weren't out to rule the world, they just worked 9 to 5 same as everyone else. why didn't they choose a military installation?? Cause he and his cronies wouldn't have had a rats chance in hell of pulling it off.
Yea, helluva patriot...
I am all for the death penalty... I am also super liberal. I think the punishment SHOULD fit the crime... why keep somone young like McVeigh in prison for the rest of his life, which barring a prison "incident", could be decades? this cost you and me, the taxpayer, zillions of dollars. killing cost money too, nut not the same cost as decades in prison. I would also not be against getting the information out of the individual. read this however you want. He should not have been allowed to puss out without accomplice question being answered. "what if there was no one else?". yeah right. I think we just got suckered.
FYI- Although I disagree with what he did, the employees at the "target" were GOVERNMENT employees, and therefore the "enemy". It is correct that he would have had little chance of pulling this off at a military installation. It would not have been impossible, however. I used to cut through an army base on my way to work every day because it cut about 10 minutes off my ride. I drove a 1971 VW bus. I had long hair. I was usually high. Every time the gate guard would salute me... EVERY TIME! who was to say that I couldn't have had a zillion pound bomb? I don't think he considered the military his "enemy", since it was the FBI, ATF and federal gov't he had problems with.
He should have been shot in the kneecaps, then wrists, then a lung, and left to bleed to death.
Then charge the cost of the bullets to his family.
I dont believe he deserved any sympathy at all. *I didnt know there was a daycare centre* doesnt wash with me. He caused a f*&%ing big bomb to explode. Regardless of where, or how, he was guarenteed to blow a few people up.
And all the bleeding hearts can kiss my @ss.
He got the easy way out, and i don't think it was right, but i guess thats the goverment for you.... I think he should have had to suffer like all the Men & Women & The Children mostly did... they should have put him in a building and blew it up to a way it wouldn't kill him on target, he would had to lay there and suffer until he died...
I personally don't feel any sympathy for him because he knew damn well what he did, I feel sorry for the fact that his mind is so wacked up he isn't even sorry for what he did. He's going to pay, and burn in Hell...
I personally don't think he should be killed cruelly, first of all it would make the person who though of that just as bad,and his real suffering will be in hell, a suffering that can't be matched on earth..
Yea I understand what you're saying. But let's face it a government employee ( and sometimes I think we ALL fall into that category at times. We seem to work for them instead of the other way around) could be just a janitor. Yea, that d@mn government janitor is out to ruin the Country. I know you're not implying that by any means, don't get me wrong. All I am saying is that, the killing and maiming of innocents should NEVER be used an an example EVER! If he felt strongly about social issues and the state of our country, he could have spent his life PEACEFULLY and PUBLICLY speaking out and promoting change. Instead he chose a cowards approach, the destruction of life and property. And the devastation didn't just include that one building, many buildings around were damaged, lot's of them had to be torn down. Restaurants, stores...lives and jobs lost.Quote:
Originally posted by snoodle69:
<STRONG>I am all for the death penalty... I am also super liberal. I think the punishment SHOULD fit the crime... why keep somone young like McVeigh in prison for the rest of his life, which barring a prison "incident", could be decades? this cost you and me, the taxpayer, zillions of dollars. killing cost money too, nut not the same cost as decades in prison. I would also not be against getting the information out of the individual. read this however you want. He should not have been allowed to puss out without accomplice question being answered. "what if there was no one else?". yeah right. I think we just got suckered.
FYI- Although I disagree with what he did, the employees at the "target" were GOVERNMENT employees, and therefore the "enemy". It is correct that he would have had little chance of pulling this off at a military installation. It would not have been impossible, however. I used to cut through an army base on my way to work every day because it cut about 10 minutes off my ride. I drove a 1971 VW bus. I had long hair. I was usually high. Every time the gate guard would salute me... EVERY TIME! who was to say that I couldn't have had a zillion pound bomb? I don't think he considered the military his "enemy", since it was the FBI, ATF and federal gov't he had problems with.</STRONG>
To what end? If nothing else people will not take his causes or his kind seriously except to look at them as terrorists who care more about personal agendas and gripes against the government than the lives of citizens who wish only to live in peace, raise a family and watch that son/daughter who they just dropped off in daycare grow up and have kids of their own. Easy for him to drive up and blow up a device that killed and ruin many a life in a split second. Sure, easy...when the people you killed are nameless and faceless...all so you can make a statement.
What a waste...
<IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">
I just want to clarify that I don't in any way support on condone what he did. I've just re-examined the situation, and I can see WHY he did it - whether he was right or wrong is a different issue all together.Quote:
Originally posted by ilovetheusers:
<STRONG>Cobra, I understand where you are coming from. Remember though. He made the choice to kill all of those people in Oklahoma, not someone else.</STRONG>
(ilovetheusers, I didn't take what you said as an attack or flame against me in any way. I just wanted to brace my stance before someone misconstrued what you said and used it against me...)
I understood what you were saying Cobra. You never said you approved of what he did. NOBODY who has posted has said that.
All you said was that you understood what his motivations were, hell I agree with that much.
If anyone who reads your post, or anyones post here...wether they are pro/con capital punishment and they gather from what they've read that anyone who has posted here is condoning what McVeigh did better re-read ALL the posts cause they have it all wrong.
He deserves to be tortured! If it was all adults it would have been somewhat different, but he killed innocent children and for that he should be punished
I heard last Friday that TM would be executed on Monday morning. Then this morning I read that he is dead. The first thing I thought was, "So?" I don't know him, and I don't know the families. However, I know that if it were anyone I knew or loved, who was in that building when he blew it up, then I would be devastated.
TM has no excuse for doing that dastardly deed. He can't blame the governments hypocrisy and he can't blame Gulf War Syndrome. These are not excuses for killing so many lives. If he had a problem, with the government, then there were many other alternatives that he could've used to make his point.
Some people "believe" in capital punishment, and some do not. I believe that there was no closure fullfilled by killing TM because all the lives he took are still gone and they will never come back. However, there is justification. The courts of the U.S. decided that this man would be punished by death, and the death that he suffered, was not cruel or unusual, therefore it was justified.
This was a disturbed individual who got what he wanted, and what he deserved. But regardless of the closure, justification, hatred toward him, capital punishment controversy, or whatever,... At least nobody will ever have to endure, from Tim McVeigh, another bombing that could kill so many people.
im just glad he's gone and i hope that the press doesn't keep talking about it.
im just glad he's gone and i hope that the press doesn't keep talking about it.
Agreed. There's really not much left to say about the matter huh?Quote:
Originally posted by snooper2:
<STRONG>im just glad he's gone and i hope that the press doesn't keep talking about it.</STRONG>
I don't know about you guys, but that Son of bitch got off real easy. I would have done this for free, but I say rig him with a nice bomb. But first, give him a Kevlar vest and maybe some Kevlar parts to cover his head and other parts, but not all. So when the bomb goes, only parts of him go, just not enough to kill him right off. Then maybe he can feel a fraction of what some of his victims felt.
Again, I'd do this for free, but give me a small arsenal and I'd solve america's Prinson Over-poluation real quick.
Been from the UK we have no death penalty for murder (I think we do for high treason - not sure though) which is a good thing. Too many wrong convictions.
In my view the death penality is too easy. Its a quick way out. Life in prision as in full life not the 25 years for Brits that we have at present is much worse. 60 or more years with no rights in a cell is far worse than death.
Although i know your directing that comment at mostly rapists/murderers I've had several family members in prison for long periods of time for non-violent protesting/resisting , even though im taking it a bit out of context I still don't apreciate that comment.Quote:
Originally posted by Lycia:
<STRONG>
but give me a small arsenal and I'd solve america's Prinson Over-poluation real quick.</STRONG>
gee where to begin on this one...
I support capital punishment. I am glad he is gone. I cant however say I even come close to understanding his motives. Many people are disenfranchised with the government. That doesnt mean blow up a bunch of people. Even if they are government employees, they had nothing to do with what he had issues with. (Of course a case could me made for destroying my local DMV... <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> a little humor not serious)
some minor notes too. an eye for an eye is Hammurabi's code. I believe it is the oldest recorded law. (pre dates what we call the bible I believe) As for the one post asking why some people view childrens lives as more valueable, I think most people are more outraged at a childs death because they haven't really lived any sembelance of a full life yet. They usually havent had a girlfriend/boyfriend, job, family...etc.
Now the painful ways some people would have liked to kill him...makes me wonder about a few of you. Geez I hope I stay on yalls good side. You guys trying to get the Marquis de Windrivers award. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">I liked the idea but that pesky Constitution of ours. I also agree with the others that killing him is better than footing the bill for letting him live. Anyway I have rambled enough (not to mention got side tracked an lost my train of thought)
I didn't think that you were flaming me. I was actually kind of agreeing with you.Quote:
Originally posted by Solid Cobra:
<STRONG>
I just want to clarify that I don't in any way support on condone what he did. I've just re-examined the situation, and I can see WHY he did it - whether he was right or wrong is a different issue all together.
(ilovetheusers, I didn't take what you said as an attack or flame against me in any way. I just wanted to brace my stance before someone misconstrued what you said and used it against me...)</STRONG>
To anyone else - I never condoned this guys actions. I just said that I understand. Big difference. I like to get into peoples heads and try to fiqure out what they are/were thinking.
Actually, decades in prison is cheaper. As I said previously, lawyers make millions of dollars defending inmates on death row. That's one good argument for abolishing the death penalty...Quote:
Originally posted by snoodle69:
<STRONG> why keep somone young like McVeigh in prison for the rest of his life, which barring a prison "incident", could be decades? this cost you and me, the taxpayer, zillions of dollars. killing cost money too, but not the same cost as decades in prison.</STRONG>
Kill em all, Let the coroner sort em out
The dealth penalty was completely abolished in 98 (including treason), and Jack Straw signed away the Governments right to re-instate it when he signed the human rights act in 99.Quote:
Originally posted by TeddyRuxspin:
<STRONG>Been from the UK we have no death penalty for murder (I think we do for high treason - not sure though) which is a good thing. Too many wrong convictions.
In my view the death penality is too easy. Its a quick way out. Life in prision as in full life not the 25 years for Brits that we have at present is much worse. 60 or more years with no rights in a cell is far worse than death.</STRONG>
As far as McVeigh is concerned? Well, I do believe in an eye for an eye etc, but is it closure for the victims? No, I don't think so. There was no remorse. He did what he did because he thought it was the right thing to do. He wasn't sorry for doing it.
Capital punishment isn't an effective deterrent any more. The whole damn world has taken a turn for the surreal.
Just my tuppence worth.
Caddarn