win xp or 2000

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April 21st, 2003, 04:25 PM
cabal

win xp or 2000

At my new office they want me to upgrade the os's for about 8 pc's and 3 notebooks with all but 2 running win98. It is a small accounting office and they think they would like to also change some of their software to network versions. Should I be thinking win 2000 or xp? Half the systems have been upgraded in the last couple of years and are fully compatible for any os I want to put on them, and the others are in of upgrades regardless of which os we pick. Ideas? Problems and pitalls I can avoid? :rolleyes:
April 21st, 2003, 04:29 PM
silencio

Go with XP for the simple reason that it'll be supported longer.
April 21st, 2003, 04:39 PM
Stalemate

Go for XP, but make sure the software the users are already accustomed to can actually run on it.

I strongly doubt the accountants would like to switch accounting software (which they tend to hold onto forever) at the same time the OS was upgraded.
April 21st, 2003, 08:35 PM
cabal

Yeah, I thought xp made more sense especially since two of the newest pc's already have xp. Software compatability won't be a problem. They are all running later windows programs except for one dos time and billing program that works fine under xp. Now all I have to do is find xp at a decent price. Although newegg.com has xp pro for $143. That is not too bad.:rolleyes:
April 22nd, 2003, 09:34 AM
gtiseb

XP is a good choice, however there is one factor you have to think about, it has alot of extra's that can be distracting (media playere,msn and so on). Don't get me wrong, I think XP is a fine os, But I like 2000 for the office environement because it's no nonsense working OS. It's also a littel easier on the hardware (requierement wise).
April 22nd, 2003, 09:40 AM
Ya_know

Quote:

Originally posted by gtiseb
XP is a good choice, however there is one factor you have to think about, it has alot of extra's that can be distracting (media playere,msn and so on). Don't get me wrong, I think XP is a fine os, But I like 2000 for the office environement because it's no nonsense working OS. It's also a littel easier on the hardware (requierement wise).

All very valid points. I concur. However, there are some downgrade rights permitted with certain purchases of XP, where you can buy the XP Pro license, but instead install a version of 98/2k/NT instead, but by maintaining the XP license for when you want get new hardware you are one step ahead. I would suggest some research there...
April 22nd, 2003, 09:58 AM
Guts3d

Quote:

Originally posted by Ya_know
All very valid points. I concur. However, there are some downgrade rights permitted with certain purchases of XP, where you can buy the XP Pro license, but instead install a version of 98/2k/NT instead, but by maintaining the XP license for when you want get new hardware you are one step ahead. I would suggest some research there...

Damn! Good point! Wish I thought of it...
April 22nd, 2003, 02:08 PM
cabal

Thanks for the replies, and my next question was going to be about coa's and licensing. I found this site http://www.componentsdirect.com/deta...productID=1638 which has a decent price on the xp pro coa. So I would need to purchase a win xp pro oem full version and additional coa's for each pc, correct?
April 22nd, 2003, 02:45 PM
kannibul

Quote:

Originally posted by cabal
Thanks for the replies, and my next question was going to be about coa's and licensing. I found this site http://www.componentsdirect.com/deta...productID=1638 which has a decent price on the xp pro coa. So I would need to purchase a win xp pro oem full version and additional coa's for each pc, correct?

No, that would be piracy.

You can not just buy a COA and be good.

You must buy either through an open license agreement, or buy the retail kits.
April 22nd, 2003, 03:29 PM
silencio

Quote:

Originally posted by kannibul
No, that would be piracy.

You can not just buy a COA and be good.

You must buy either through an open license agreement, or buy the retail kits.

Actually, that looked like a full OEM license meaning that you would be in compliance. All OEM licenses must be purchased with hardware and if you try to buy that license without hardware you get:

WARNING: ALL MICROSOFT COAs REQUIRE PURCHASE OF HARDWARE.
PLEASE ADD ONE OF THE FOLLOWING HARDWARE PRODUCTS TO YOUR CART TO VALIDATE YOUR COA PURCHASE:

Thanks for that site BTW. My licenses were costing me $115 :)
April 22nd, 2003, 03:33 PM
geoscomp

"Offical COA license sticker for XP PRO, license ONLY, No media
**End user must have Microsoft original CD Full OEM."

Does this mean a full cd for each install? If so, then you aren't saving any money, since the cd comes with the coa
April 22nd, 2003, 03:46 PM
cabal

Oh, I thought buying one full version and coa's for each machine was avoiding piracy, thought that how the "big boys" did it. Not that I would ever pirate software. Not me. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.:D
April 23rd, 2003, 07:43 AM
CeeBee

Quote:

Originally posted by Ya_know
All very valid points. I concur. However, there are some downgrade rights permitted with certain purchases of XP, where you can buy the XP Pro license, but instead install a version of 98/2k/NT instead, but by maintaining the XP license for when you want get new hardware you are one step ahead. I would suggest some research there...

I can only agree... In fact this is what we are doing since not all our computers are able to properly handle the extra (useless) load of XP. Even more, by having a volume license you get a corporate XP key... activation not required...
April 23rd, 2003, 08:57 AM
cabal

thanks for all the replies. This helps me alot. One more quick question : xp pro or xp home? I know I should be thinking pro all the way but the coa's for home are half the price of pro.
April 23rd, 2003, 09:01 AM
CeeBee

If you have a network with a domain you'll need the pro version. I am not 100% sure but I think home version has a limitation in the number of computers that can connect to it.
April 23rd, 2003, 09:40 AM
Ya_know

You also can't use Home for the down grade rights. That right is only offered on XP Pro.
April 23rd, 2003, 10:29 AM
silencio

Quote:

Originally posted by geoscomp
"Offical COA license sticker for XP PRO, license ONLY, No media
**End user must have Microsoft original CD Full OEM."

Does this mean a full cd for each install? If so, then you aren't saving any money, since the cd comes with the coa

The OEM CD is required to install the product. You could install over the network though and never use the CD.

As for Home Edition, you can't join a domain with it. That's the major downfall for business users. I have heard of a hack that would allow this but PRO is the way to go.
April 23rd, 2003, 01:26 PM
cabal

I think we'll go with xp pro. It also has better recovery options.
One more dumb question : One of the new laptops we got had xp installed on it. I thought you were allowed to install xp on one desktop and one laptop? Or was I dreaming? Not that buying one more license is a big deal but ...;)
April 23rd, 2003, 01:41 PM
geoscomp

That used to be true with 98 for example, but because of the activation requirement, it isn't true with xp. here is the quote from the eula

"THIS LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED,
TRANSFERRED TO OR USED CONCURRENTLY
ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS. The SOFTWARE
is licensed with the HARDWARE as a single integrated
product and may only be used with the HARDWARE. "
April 23rd, 2003, 04:10 PM
kannibul

Quote:

Originally posted by geoscomp
"Offical COA license sticker for XP PRO, license ONLY, No media
**End user must have Microsoft original CD Full OEM."

This is NOT LEGAL.
April 23rd, 2003, 04:11 PM
kannibul

Quote:

Originally posted by cabal
Oh, I thought buying one full version and coa's for each machine was avoiding piracy, thought that how the "big boys" did it.

No the big boys do it either via Open License Agreements, or Select License Agreements.

That is the ONLY time you will ever get a license outside of a FULL RETAIL KIT.
April 23rd, 2003, 05:06 PM
silencio

Quote:

Originally posted by kannibul
No the big boys do it either via Open License Agreements, or Select License Agreements.

That is the ONLY time you will ever get a license outside of a FULL RETAIL KIT.

Sorry, you're wrong. OEM versions of XP are available with hardware purchase from vendors able to sell them. There's nothing illegal about it. You don't need a volume license for an OEM license. Dude where do you get your information?
April 23rd, 2003, 05:10 PM
geoscomp

My understanding was that when you get the oem version with hardware purchase..which i do all the time, in lots of 5 or 10, you get the coa and the disk. not just the coa
April 23rd, 2003, 07:38 PM
bladeburn

Quote:

Originally posted by cabal
thanks for all the replies. This helps me alot. One more quick question : xp pro or xp home? I know I should be thinking pro all the way but the coa's for home are half the price of pro.

I think every one has mentioned some very good points about every thing on this page. About choosing an OS I just like to say that win2K is awesome and I find it much more stable than XP. However if you want to go with XP, stick with XP pro. Cheers.
April 24th, 2003, 08:20 AM
kannibul

Quote:

Originally posted by silencio
Sorry, you're wrong. OEM versions of XP are available with hardware purchase from vendors able to sell them. There's nothing illegal about it. You don't need a volume license for an OEM license. Dude where do you get your information?

The link that someone referenced:

http://www.componentsdirect.com/deta...productID=1638

Is illegal. You can not buy just a COA, and call it good. A vendor must supply media with the license, unless it is under open/select licensing.

Sorry I didn't include the basis for my arguement earlier. OEM I am sure is different, but I am sure you still need more than just a COA to prove a valid license.
April 24th, 2003, 03:39 PM
silencio

Quote:

Originally posted by kannibul
OEM I am sure is different, but I am sure you still need more than just a COA to prove a valid license.

All you need is a COA. The funny thing about OEM XP is that you're not supposed to move it to another machine. I think it was originally intended to be preinstalled on OEM machines but, somewhere in the EULA was a loopole that allowed OEMs to sell OEM licenses as long as it was sold with hardware. So, you buy the OEM license and a piece of hardware and put XP on your machine with full compliance. If you decide to move that OEM copy to a new machine you're legally prohibited to do so. That's the way it's been explained to me by the sales guys.
April 25th, 2003, 12:12 AM
kannibul

Quote:

Originally posted by silencio
All you need is a COA. The funny thing about OEM XP is that you're not supposed to move it to another machine. I think it was originally intended to be preinstalled on OEM machines but, somewhere in the EULA was a loopole that allowed OEMs to sell OEM licenses as long as it was sold with hardware. So, you buy the OEM license and a piece of hardware and put XP on your machine with full compliance. If you decide to move that OEM copy to a new machine you're legally prohibited to do so. That's the way it's been explained to me by the sales guys.

So, going by that logic, you buy a sound card. Now, if you move the sound card to another machine, then you should be able to install it with that hardware. When you buy the OEM license with a piece of hardware, it would seem that it would be bound to whatever machine has that specific piece of hardware.

This is why I never get OEM licenses. But, I still fully beleive that a COA, by itself without media, is illegal.
I may have touched on this earlier, but when the company I worked for, ordered 170 licenses of Office 2000 Pro. What arrived was two media kits, and 170 COA's.

COA's do not mean squat. I contacted Microsoft Piracy, and informed them of what we had. They asked for a sample and got back with us. Basically, in our situation, the COA was from a retail kit, therefore it was illegal, and we were to try and send it back to the vendor (www.bigclearance.com)

Everything worked out, they took it back willingly, and that was the end of that.

This is where I get the whole COA=nothing.

OEM is for OEM
Loopholes are Enron tactics.
April 25th, 2003, 09:59 AM
silencio

Quote:

But, I still fully beleive that a COA, by itself without media, is illegal.

All you need is the COA.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/s.../guide/oem.asp
April 25th, 2003, 12:08 PM
kannibul

Quote:

Originally posted by silencio
All you need is the COA.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/s.../guide/oem.asp

I'm still the untrusting person, and would contact Microsoft before making an OEM product w/Hardware purchase
April 25th, 2003, 12:23 PM
geoscomp

Well, being a microsoft partner..that's just what i did..here is the answer from my 20 minute call..(with a real person, none-the-less)
If you purchase a coa..presuming it is a legitimate one with the holographic sticker, etc....you own the license. Neither you, as an end user, nor you, as a reseller, can get in trouble for this..although if you resell without a cd or other means of recovering the system..you can have a problem. However..if you are the person that is selling coa's without a cd..then you can get in big trouble..Microsofts words, not mine.
April 25th, 2003, 02:16 PM
cabal

Thanks for all the replies. In our own office, since we are the end users, I think I know which way to go now. Any systems I have sold in the past I always bought the os w/cd. Just not worth the hassle and posible legal problems. But if I can save my new boss a couple of hundred on our own upgrades...:cool:
April 25th, 2003, 05:11 PM
bookmarkmns

For what it is worth, I've just taken XP Pro off our main machine and reverted back to win2k SP3. Why? Quicker, less intrusive design, found XP slow. good for installing hardware mind.