4 Year degree in Computer Science?

I was working once with a lady who graduated from a Major 4 year college with a degree in Computer Science. I had been programming since I was in 5th grade. So I decide to talk to her about programming. This was a few years ago when Java first came out.


I kid you not this was my actual conversation with her!

Here is my conversation with her:
"So I heard you graduated from college in Computer Science as your major?"

"Yep"

"So what programming languages did you learn? C++, Delphi, Pascal?"

"No, never heard of any of those."

"You never heard of any of those programming languages?"

"Nope."

"How about Visual Basic, Visual C++, Foxpro, Excel, Access, HTML, Java, Javascript?"

"Hmmm...no... none of those sound familiar either"

"Okay, Do you know what language you did learn?"

"No, I don't remember it's name."

"And you graduated when?"

"a couple of months ago"

"Okay. So do you have a computer that you practice on?"

"Yes"

"What type is it? AMD, Intel, Mac?"

"I dunno."

"<nod> Any idea how fast it is?"

"hmmm.... No.... I don't really like computers so I don't pay attention to them"

At this point I figured that she just showed up and slept through class and ended the conversation as I was getting nowhere fast. I felt sorry for her boss who wanted her to do some programming for him. I talked to him and she finally ended up learning Access to do what he wanted about a year and a half later. She was his secretary while she attended school, so I assume she continued to be a secretary during this time. I personally hope she never get's into the programming field. Well maybe for a shovelware company but she might be too good.

Laugh my head off everytime I remember this.

-eedmond

You can have a computer science degree without doing any programming at all, there's plenty of other stuff to study that doesn't necessarily involve any code whatsoever, already having a fair grounding in programming I deliberatley choose a degree like that & its a real BSc ;)

I too have a 'noncey' degree, one with lots of accademic virtue, but no real world applications, if they did that we'd just have a collection of little pre-drilled microsoft clones who all 'knew' jack !

Just because you can/cannot program doesn't mean you do/don't deserve a degree in computer science, doctors for instance aren't microbiologists, but they can still recognise a cold !, would a microbiologist be able to fix a broken leg ? ... maybe she just thought you had a very narrow outlook ! :eek2:

Hehehe - she sounds like me :)

What I can't stand are these people that go out and get liberal arts degrees with some uselsess majors and then decide they can become a tech.

Some people get a Computer Science degree just because they know some people make big $$$ out of that. Fortunately life does sepparate people according to their knowledge within few years. After all when you have to do something it's not your degree that matters, it's your knowledge level.

i hate to burst your bubble, but life doesn't usually seperate people according to their knowledge. you usually get seperated out by who you know how well you are networked. if you don't know how to do something and you know the right people, you can get yourself in a position to manage some people who do know what they are doing.

sorry to be a downer, but that is really how it works. hard work will get you places, but in corporate america it will only take you so far.

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Originally Posted by CeeBee

Some people get a Computer Science degree just because they know some people make big $$$ out of that. Fortunately life does sepparate people according to their knowledge within few years. After all when you have to do something it's not your degree that matters, it's your knowledge level.

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Me thinks your logic regarding CS Degrees may be flawed. I graduated from a very large midsouth university with a degree in Computer Science. At the time of my graduation (1990) most of the languages you mentioned were not being taught, and they had not been developed. Basic, Assembler, and COBOL were the languages of the day. My degree was with an emphasis on hardware design. BAsed on that the only programming requirement was Assembler on IBM mainframes.

My point is: just because someone doesn't know about programming or specifics about desktop computers doesn't necessarily mean that they have a meaningless degree.

How much do you know about mainframe computers?

Welcome to Windrivers Blah, I guess you feel pretty strongly about this to make your first post.

However, Eedmond does point out that java had been released so there were a shedload of programming languages around. I find it particularly hard to believe that a Computer Science degree in this day and age does not include some programming or scripting of some kind. Besides which he was pointing out that this lady had done a programming language but didn't know which one.

That tells me they kinda coasted through those classes.

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Originally Posted by BlahBlahBlah

Me thinks your logic regarding CS Degrees may be flawed. I graduated from a very large midsouth university with a degree in Computer Science. At the time of my graduation (1990) most of the languages you mentioned were not being taught, and they had not been developed. Basic, Assembler, and COBOL were the languages of the day. My degree was with an emphasis on hardware design. BAsed on that the only programming requirement was Assembler on IBM mainframes.

My point is: just because someone doesn't know about programming or specifics about desktop computers doesn't necessarily mean that they have a meaningless degree.

How much do you know about mainframe computers?

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To answer your question I know absolutley NOTHING about mainframe computers, other than they are big and expensive and where I used to work we had a black one named Darth Vader.

And you are incorrect in your statement that no programming languages existed in 1990 except Basic, Assembler and COBOL. I have programming books for Turbo Pascal Version 6.0 printed in 1991. I started Turbo Pascal programming myself in 1992 as a freshman in highschool. I also started programming in C++ in 1994 in high school. I started programming HTML in 1993, and Javascript and Java in 1995 to 96 timeframe all in high school. I also have a college level Turbo Pascal programming book that was printed in 1989. I have a Visual C++ 1.5 book printed in 1993. By the time I graduated from High School in 1996 C++ was becoming the dominate programming language over Basic and Pascal. About 1996 Borland introduced Delphi which was basically Visual Turbo Pascal.

Admittedly most colleges in that time period probably stuck to the languages you mentioned but as the 90's progressed many colleges switched to Pascal and C++ and many I have inquired about enrolling in state they teach Java currently. This lady graduated with a programming degree in 2001. She should have learned at least one of those languages unless there is a new super uber programming language that I have not heard about.

-Eedmond

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Originally Posted by BlahBlahBlah

At the time of my graduation (1990) most of the languages you mentioned were not being taught, and they had not been developed.
My point is: just because someone doesn't know about programming or specifics about desktop computers doesn't necessarily mean that they have a meaningless degree.

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Well, blah, do you really want to defend someone who graduated while Java was being taught as your first post?
Myself, having worked at a college at the time Java was developed, I can not for the life of me understand what you defend.
The antiques you mention were just that, other than Cobol.
Eedmond mentions some "old" ones as well, such as Pascal, Delphi, and Foxpro.
This Computer Programming Speciallist, did not know ANYTHING about ANY of them!!!
So...since you do feel so strongly about this, what, in fact, do you feel so strongly about???
This was NOT a condemnation of ALL Computer Science degree earners, but only this one in particular.
This, in fact, goes back to the general disregard that MOST field techs, who learned on their own, feel towards the page turners.
And, there is MUCH to this argument and debate.
Books DO NOT give you tech ability, they only enhance it.
Please do not take this personally, because it wasn't meant to be aimed at ALL Computer Science degree holders...many of whom are truly good and gifted at what they do.
But, this one wasn't!!!
Just goes to show....

hmm......when was it that FORTRAN 77 was released? :D
That was a fun language. :eek2:

If you want to learn about programing do a software engineering degree ... :rolleyes: - 'computer science' can be about anything from circitry design & microelectronics, Cod's rules on hierachical databases, Von whathisfaces architecture vs RISK, to User Interface or network design, even ancilary services like systems analysis don't really necessarily require much code ability, just the general idea, do network systems engineers need to knock up cobol apps in their tea breaks ? ... millions of folk work in various parts of the IT Industry, almost every one isn't a programmer ;)

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Originally Posted by confus-ed

.. millions of folk work in various parts of the IT Industry, almost every one isn't a programmer ;)

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https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2006/04/1.gifhttps://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2006/04/1.gif

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Originally Posted by confus-ed

If you want to learn about programing do a software engineering degree ... :rolleyes: - 'computer science' can be about anything from circitry design & microelectronics, Cod's rules on hierachical databases, Von whathisfaces architecture vs RISK, to User Interface or network design, even ancilary services like systems analysis don't really necessarily require much code ability, just the general idea, do network systems engineers need to knock up cobol apps in their tea breaks ? ... millions of folk work in various parts of the IT Industry, almost every one isn't a programmer ;)

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Ok. I used the incorrect term. I apologize for my stupidity and promise it will happen again.

-eedmond

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Originally Posted by eedmond

Ok. I used the incorrect term. I apologize for my stupidity and promise it will happen again.

-eedmond

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No, you didn't use an incorrect term, whether or not you do do it again.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif
Anyone taking CS as a major, at the time of Jave, should have and would have known at least what a few of them were.
No.CS is not a programming major but look at -ed and his non-technical major.
Or mine (Historyhttps://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif).
But, we do know at least what these "things" were!!!
Not only heard of them, but are familiar with their history.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gifagain.
How could we not be if we were really serious about what we do?
This one was...well I don't kmow, but I surely (yes, shirley) hope that that is not the future of tech.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gifagain

Where exactly did this woman go to school? A computer science degree is very different depending on the quality of the school, and wherever she went sounds pretty worthless. Also, some business/IT people say they are computer science when really they know nothing on the subject. Personally, I'm finishing a 4-year program now at William and Mary, and I have friends at UVA, MIT, CMU, VT, etc, and I know these schools are all pretty good about teaching you real languages and such. The number you learn depends on what you take, but I have used C++, C, Java, Tcl/TK, html, Lisp, Scheme, Prolog, Assembly and unix scripting to one degree or another. I also used Pascal in high school back in the day. Most of these languages were only for a few projects, but we've used C, C++, Java extensively. It really does depend on what courses you take for whether you really do anything overly complex in them (Networking, simulation, and intro to OS have been pretty good at that), but everyone gets at least a decent background in the main languages.

That being said, as I said initially, a lot of schools may not make you learn this at all. It depends on how they balance theoretical and actual programming, and whether their professors really know what they are doing. But don't get the impression that 4 year programs never make you program!

I do believe she went to the University of Oregon. I don't know what they teach (Too poor to even think about going their) other than partying and inciting riots.

-eedmond

I looked at numerous software engineering degrees in 94. They were teaching fortran and cobal. College is always well behind the technology curve.

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Originally Posted by silencio

I looked at numerous software engineering degrees in 94. They were teaching fortran and cobal. College is always well behind the technology curve.

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Tell me about it - my next 3 months assignments are in pascal..... Turbo pascal 1.5 for win 3.1 and 95 :sad:

most employers when asking for degree qualified peeps aren't too bothered about the degree, it could be in poodle clipping. What they are intrested in though is what the degree brings, the ability of the person to apply themself to whatever is asked, be it an 5000 word essay or an IT project. We all have to go to school by law but uni is voluntery and you're not forced to attend class.

i don't have a degree and it does xxx me off sometimes seeing educated idiots getting all the breaks but It's the way of the world. I got my degree (in reality)on the streets of Northern Ireland and Bosnia and i'm still breathing so it's a good day :-))))

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Originally Posted by NooNoo

Tell me about it - my next 3 months assignments are in pascal..... Turbo pascal 1.5 for win 3.1 and 95 :sad:

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I heard that Turbo Pascal never works correctly unless you press the turbo button on the front of the computer. Ha! Remember those?

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Originally Posted by silencio

I heard that Turbo Pascal never works correctly unless you press the turbo button on the front of the computer. Ha! Remember those?

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Hahaha! I used Turbo Pascal on Mac's in High School. Mac's didn't have Turbo buttons, guess they must have made a turbo button emulator. :grin:

-eedmond

FTRFTP :thumbs:
What degree has MFC and Win32 API in its cirriculum?
Or do I need to go to the MS Press Univ. School of programming? :)

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Originally Posted by NooNoo

Tell me about it - my next 3 months assignments are in pascal..... Turbo pascal 1.5 for win 3.1 and 95 :sad:

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... just 'cos somethings new don't make it bestest ! ...

Pascal is conceptually pure as far as programming technique & concept go, so that's why they still teach it ;)
... I learnt it 'accademically' in 1983 when I did my O levels, its helped me understand every single language I've come accross since & adapt quickly to each ... once you understand 'concept & structure' which pascal teaches you for every language, then its just more syntax !

Oh I agree Ed, but the frustrating thing is the college will not update to one that don't crash, and one that has the printer.tpu....

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Originally Posted by eedmond

Ok. I used the incorrect term. I apologize for my stupidity and promise it will happen again.

-eedmond

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I never saw this, failure to read previous posts properly syndrome but ... :thumbs: :devil: :grin:

& to Noo I say ... but a 3.11 client on a p4 is pretty wick ! :D

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Originally Posted by confus-ed

I never saw this, failure to read previous posts properly syndrome but ... :thumbs: :devil: :grin:

& to Noo I say ... but a 3.11 client on a p4 is pretty wick ! :D

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Agreed - BUT, we work on compaqs with 2k pro - cpu 333 or 350 and a grand total of 128mb ram - less between 4 and 8 mb shared video ram.

It takes between 15 seconds for something like TPW to launch and up to 2 minutes for Office Apps!

I concur....any decent computer science undergrad degree, includes so called 'weed out the bad ones' classes, which are intro to programming, and data structures....at least those two....the fail rate on those classes is horrendous..and it usually weeds out the oens that don't belong.....i don't know which school she went to, but all the schools in the Boston area have the identical program in computer science.

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Originally Posted by NooNoo

Oh I agree Ed, but the frustrating thing is the college will not update to one that don't crash, and one that has the printer.tpu....

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You must have the same config that we had in college, our pascal compilers crashed CONSTANTLY

I was in one of those weedout programming classes. I thought I was failing the midterm when I received a 33 on it...until it was found that over 50% of the class scored below 10. Though I passed and the prof pleaded with me to keep my CS minor, I dropped the minor as I felt I was learning nothing and programming in C++ was not one of my best talents.

Two things I didn't like about that course. The prof assumed we knew much more than we actually did(Intro to comp sci..."no previous experience assumed") and the fact we had a lot of students who already knew the language/tested out of APs taking the class for an easy A. This really screwed everyone else as that prof paid most of his attention to them. I learned almost nothing from the class because the prof forgot that it was a "beginner's class".

Anyone thought that she might have lied about having a degree at all?

Just a point of interest, early versions of Turbo Pascal v1.5 are still taught today. Its so basic that it is easy for programming phobic students to pick up quickly. within a couple of lessons they will understand the basic consepts in syntax, what variables are and how to use them, conditional statements, iteration, program constructs...etc etc etc

Pascal contains ALL the fundemental elements of any programming language, its used as a starting point, its not cluttered with hundreds of options and graphics, easiest way to teach and the easiest way to learn the basics of programming without (quote) "weeding out" anyone.

and to but in completly: yes, if she had taken a programming module recently, she should have known what in!

I still love Pascal, specially Borland's Turbo Pascal, back when they actually gave you a hard copy manual to go with it. After cutting my teeth on Fortran (the Engineering School's language of choice, then), COBOL, Assembler and ANSI Basic (remember that?), Pascal was a wonderful breath of fresh air, full of possibilities! I kept telling people to forget about Basic, it was dead language with no power to it! Ha! :rolleyes:

Now, I develop everything In House in Visual Basic and VBA, mostly, so everyday I eat a little more crow! How different is reality from the halcyon days of youth. Would that I could move our production environment to Visual C, or C++! And, then again, I am the Section Manager, so maybe I can! :p

dude i remember this thread when it wne around the first time!

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Originally Posted by RejectionMan

dude i remember this thread when it wne around the first time!

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Egad, here I went and did it again, posting to a ressurected theme. So, again I apologize. Apparently I do not know my WD history and am doomed to repeat it. :p

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Originally Posted by El_Squid

.. Apparently I do not know my WD history and am doomed to repeat it. :p

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Noooooo .. don't do that, I've suffered it all once already :thumbs2: - perhaps an alternative plan might be for you to read the dates !?! :eek2: :devil:

Well CrazyH ressurrected it and it was on the top of page 3...so El Squid gets off this time. :)

Wow! I am really gonna have to pay more attention to the start dates of these threads! I usually just go by the date of the last response! :cool:

funny thing was I coulda sworn I'd read it on another website... possibly http://rinkworks.com/stupid/