converting from Windows me to 98

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January 29th, 2004, 11:55 AM
mastermiaow

converting from Windows me to 98

I am not sure if this is the correct place for this query so please let me know if there is more suitable place.
A friend wanted to downgrade her system from unstable Windows ME to stable Windows 98. When she tried to insert windows 98 disk, computer would not allow it to run because OS on machine was newer than the one she was trying to load.
So we put in windows start up disk to reformat computer to allow Win 98 to be loaded. We go into a/fdisk and delete primary partion and make sure no existing partitions, there is some question about fat 32 and the OS having capacity to store more than 518mb (?) on one drive which I answer yes to as this is the default. Then "restart with CD rom". Type in e:/setup.exe and the windows 98 startup menu appears. However after 30 seconds a message appears saying that we need an OS update as current version on computer is newer than what we are trying to load. The error begins (I think) with SU and then some numbers. So it seems that windows ME has penetrated deep within the bowels of the computer so that even deleting primary partition does not get rid of it.
I confirm this by putting in the Win ME CD and it starts to load no problem.
I then go back into fdisk and try again by deleting primary partion. this time I am not allowed to run setup.exe without recreating an active partion:
"If you have HPFS or NTFS installed on your hard drive, you will need to create an MS-DOS boot partition to set up windows"
I then restart choose "start computer with CD rom support", type in d:/setup.exe and then read that "diagnostic tools were successfully loaded to drive D but then read that "sector not found reading drive A". I continue getting this or the next screen that freezes after the words:
"Please wait while setup initializes scanning system registry.
Windows setup requires X bites available on your" (writing stops somewhere around here)
However many times I delete and recreate partions using fdisk this continues.
I then try with a different start up disk but still get the same error message or frozen screen
So am no longer even getting into the Windows setup screen and need HELP PLEASE!
January 29th, 2004, 12:25 PM
freddy

ok , always thought ME a bit messy (what the hell did they do with the DOS)

stick your 98 cd in / start with cd support. ,,,,fdisk ,,,,remove all partitions inc non dos or whatever ,,,,extended and the lot ,,,,,create 1 new one (DOS)(active) ,,,then reboot.

restart , "setup 98" and it should format the drive ,,,and then load windoze ,,,,

i hope thats the answer

good luck

freddy
January 29th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Stalemate

Tech-to-Tech would have been the ideal place for this. https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif

Now, for your current situation, I can only assume one thing:

The PC was not rebooted after the partitions were modified through FDISK.

For the rest, the instructions above should give you a good start.
January 29th, 2004, 12:28 PM
eboyjones

I see you have f-disked, but I didn't see that you formatted the drive. Here is the Microsft how to article

http://support.microsoft.com/default...NoWebContent=1

http://pages.prodigy.net/bestsmileys...1/compbang.gif
January 29th, 2004, 02:38 PM
NooNoo

Its the boot sector.

Fdisk /mbr

using the windows 98 bootdiskette. You cannot use the ME boot diskette for this.
February 3rd, 2004, 09:33 AM
mastermiaow

problem solved but another one appears

Quote:

Originally Posted by eboyjones

I see you have f-disked, but I didn't see that you formatted the drive. Here is the Microsft how to article

Absolutely right. The process that had been outlined to me had not included formatting. When I put in fdisk and then C: /sformat (or something similar) it worked and I was able to load windows 98. I don't really understand how you can get rid of the previous OS without formatting?
However there are now several explanation marks in device manager. I was not able to set up an internet connection because no modem could be located. (Modem was working fine prior to reformat). I assume this is because the IBM 300GL has specific drivers for various things such as the modem that are not included on the generic windows 98 disc. Is this a common symptom when reformatting with a generic windows CD? I assume what I have to do is download these drivers from the IBM site.
February 3rd, 2004, 09:59 AM
confus-ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastermiaow

..However there are now several explanation marks in device manager. I was not able to set up an internet connection because no modem could be located. (Modem was working fine prior to reformat). I assume this is because the IBM 300GL has specific drivers for various things such as the modem that are not included on the generic windows 98 disc. Is this a common symptom when reformatting with a generic windows CD? I assume what I have to do is download these drivers from the IBM site.

That's the one :thumbs: ... if you get stuck you know where to come ... :)

The older the version of windows you use the less driver support there is 'natively'...
February 3rd, 2004, 04:05 PM
gazzak

If anyones interested I have a bootable floppy that will blast away all partitions and mbr records on a hard disk, for those wonderful times when you can't get rid of thos "non dos" partitions that don't exist! :sad:

Life saver!
February 4th, 2004, 05:48 PM
mastermiaow

Quote:

Originally Posted by confus-ed

That's the one :thumbs: ... if you get stuck you know where to come ... :)

The older the version of windows you use the less driver support there is 'natively'...

Yes, yes I need help!!!
I spoke to my friend tonight and there are a lot of things that are non-operational on the computer since loading on Windows 98. To name but a few
1. modem
2. she tried to load on printer CD and computer could not find the driver. I was confused by this as I thought driver would be on printer CD but perhaps OS also needs a printer driver?
3. She uses a statistics package which needs svga display and is unable to load statistics CD because computer does not have this (had it before reformat).

My first question. Would it be worthwhile loading on Win98se rather than 98?
My second question. I went to ibm 300gl driver page at
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/dlsearc...s+98&cc=us&p=1

There are 43 drivers to download which is an awful lot. How do I know which are the priority? eg there are several types of video drivers, several types of modems, something called Etherjet, core chipset etc. The list is endless......aaaarggghh I only have a dial up modem - I can't download everything....
Also should I assume that when it says Win95/98 this includes 98se?
February 5th, 2004, 03:07 AM
confus-ed

Ok since you asked at this point ... YES imho 98SE will be a better bet than plain old 98 ;) might save you an odd download too

Answering the various 'other' points :)

Your modem drivers are gonna be on that link somewhere IF that came with the lappie, you want 98se drivers (98 ones will be 'good' - 95 drivers not required as well)

Printer driver probably is on CD - but maybe not a new enough one? Give us the model please.

SVGA output to screen will 'reappear' once we give it the right driver ;)

If it says driver is for 95/98 & there isn't one specially for SE for that device then probably you can assume the 'older' one is ok.

As for whether you want all those downloads, I dunno without thinking & looking! :D - decide on your o/s first & get whichever going & we'll fathom it from there :)
February 5th, 2004, 04:17 PM
NooNoo

Its likely that the cd that has the driver on it is the sort where you run a setup and not add printer. Is there a setup.exe on the cd?
February 9th, 2004, 08:16 AM
mastermiaow

Quote:

Originally Posted by confus-ed

Ok since you asked at this point ... YES imho 98SE will be a better bet than plain old 98 ;) might save you an odd download too

Answering the various 'other' points :)

Your modem drivers are gonna be on that link somewhere IF that came with the lappie, you want 98se drivers (98 ones will be 'good' - 95 drivers not required as well)

Printer driver probably is on CD - but maybe not a new enough one? Give us the model please.

SVGA output to screen will 'reappear' once we give it the right driver ;)

If it says driver is for 95/98 & there isn't one specially for SE for that device then probably you can assume the 'older' one is ok.

As for whether you want all those downloads, I dunno without thinking & looking! :D - decide on your o/s first & get whichever going & we'll fathom it from there :)

Thank you for responding to my problem.

The good news is that I was able to locate specific drivers for IBM 300gl
6275 (its a PC not a laptop) at this page:
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/dlsearc...Go.x=15&Go.y=8

I burned them to CD at work on a broadband connection. This was a
display driver, sound driver, 2 etherjet drivers. I didn't bother with
Logitech scrollpoint mouse driver.

I went to my friend's house with Windows 98se CD and put that in to
upgrade system from 98. The first problem was that at the beginning of
98se setup a message came up saying OS could not be upgraded. The error code was something like SU018. Why should this be? I got round this by reformatting and then installing the new OS.

I copied the downloaded drivers onto the hard disk. Etherjet drivers
needed extracting to floppy but when I tried to load them, it assumed an
icon in control panel which was not there. My impression from the
Etherjet readme file is that it is something to do with network
connections and is not relevant anyway.
I then checked device manager and noted where exclamation marks were.
These were on display drive, PCI Communications, PCI Multimedia and
Deskjet 640c printer.

I went into display driver via device manager and updated by locating the source file where I had placed the downloaded driver. The new driver is S3 Inc.Trio D and the existing display driver was Standard PCI Graphics Adaptor (VGA). My friend needs to use an SPSS statistics package which she cannot load at present because it needs SVGA display resolution. So I was hoping that new display driver would provide this.
However when I restarted and checked display settings the standard PCI
Graphics Adaptor was still listed. When I went to device manager, there
was an exclamation mark where S3 Inc.Trio D was listed and the message in properties/general:
"Windows cannot initialise the built-in graphics adapter. Shutdown your
computer remove all graphics adapters then restart. Shut down again
reinsert all adapters and then restart."
I did all this only to find the same problem. I then removed just the PCI
Standard one but on restart, windows insisted on reinstalling it
automatically - locating it at C:/windows/inf/insdsp.inf. So I am stuck.

I then went to PCI multimedia and under properties/general was message:
"drivers for this device not installed.Code 28"
I tried updating driver but when I specified location of the downloaded
sound driver C/ibm tools/driver etc I got the message:
"Windows unable to locate driver for this device"

PCI Communications had the same Code 28 message displayed under
properties/general. I assume that is why the Modem is not working but as I do not have any downloaded modem driver I don't know what to do about this.
We loaded printer CD and everthing installed fine but then there is a
message on Printer CD interface:
"This installation cannot be used for USB connections" this is
because PCI communications is not working . However there is no exclamation mark in Device Manager on either of the 2 USB controllers. I assume it would work fine with parallel port

I know that there were none of these problems with Windows ME so I assume that the problem is something to do with downgrading the OS. However as I reformatted I don't understand why this should be and why the 98se is not able to work with the downloaded drivers or operate PCI communications with existing drivers.
Help and advice greatly appreciated.

Master
February 9th, 2004, 02:06 PM
NooNoo

Boot to safe mode, remove the device manager items that are causing a problem. You will find you may have 2 or 3 of the same device as well, remove them all, since you don't know which one is being used... Oh, on the pci vga adapter and s3, remove those last... it's kinda hard to reboot properly if you cannot see the display output :D
February 10th, 2004, 08:14 AM
confus-ed

Noo's advice, as always is good ... do that first ! :thumbs:

You are still gonna have some 'issues' left though ...

So answering your long :eek2: post ... 98se 'bombed' first attempt as it was the 'wrong kind of install' (no not RailTrack :D) but not 'upgrade' but full, you have to do what you did & do a complete install (you can cheat though ;))..

Modem in your pc (:D not paying sufficient attention first time) isn't listed at IBM site ? Look at the first link you gave us .... I can see modems on that ;)

You also want to visit windows update with this machine :) ... once the modems working :D - Win 98se has some usb issues I think - so that maybe that will fix up the printer, but there are security fixes too, which you 'need' ..
February 10th, 2004, 10:24 AM
mastermiaow

clarifications

Quote:

Originally Posted by confus-ed

Noo's advice, as always is good ... do that first ! :thumbs:

You are still gonna have some 'issues' left though ...

So answering your long :eek2: post ... 98se 'bombed' first attempt as it was the 'wrong kind of install' (no not RailTrack :D) but not 'upgrade' but full, you have to do what you did & do a complete install (you can cheat though ;))....

Modem in your pc (:D not paying sufficient attention first time) isn't listed at IBM site ? Look at the first link you gave us .... I can see modems on that ;)

You also want to visit windows update with this machine :) ... once the modems working :D - Win 98se has some usb issues I think - so that maybe that will fix up the printer, but there are security fixes too, which you 'need' ..[/QUOTE]
February 10th, 2004, 10:48 AM
mastermiaow

clarifications

Quote:

Originally Posted by confus-ed

[I]Noo's advice, as always is good ... do that first ! :thumbs:

You are still gonna have some 'issues' left though ...

So answering your long :eek2: post ... 98se 'bombed' first attempt as it was the 'wrong kind of install' (no not RailTrack :D) but not 'upgrade' but full, you have to do what you did & do a complete install (you can cheat though ;))....

Yes believe you me that post cost blood,sweat and tears...
So although I had an original Windows 98SE disk this was insufficient to upgrade an older OS? So what is the difference between an upgrade disk and what I have eg. is that upgrade disks can only upgrade and not install an OS after reformat whereas full disks can install after reformat but not upgrade? And can you have both facilities combined on one disk?

Quote:

Modem in your pc (:D not paying sufficient attention first time) isn't listed at IBM site ? Look at the first link you gave us .... I can see modems on that ;)

Aha but first download site is for IBM 300gl, second is for IBM 300gl 6275 (my friend's model). I assume that modems on first site are not compatible with 6275 otherwise they would be listed on second site.....Please advise.

Quote:

You also want to visit windows update with this machine :) ... once the modems working :D - Win 98se has some usb issues I think - so that maybe that will fix up the printer, but there are security fixes too, which you 'need' ..

Yes "the modem working" being the operative phrase!
What I don't understand is why the OS needs to be upgraded before the various drivers will work. Wasn't win98se sufficient in its original format? Do some machines work fine without the upgrades and others not?
Lastly where do you get your smilies from? - my contributions seem very boring in comparison!
February 10th, 2004, 10:51 AM
mastermiaow

Quote:

Originally Posted by NooNoo

Boot to safe mode, remove the device manager items that are causing a problem. You will find you may have 2 or 3 of the same device as well, remove them all, since you don't know which one is being used... Oh, on the pci vga adapter and s3, remove those last... it's kinda hard to reboot properly if you cannot see the display output :D

OK I will do this but what should I expect on reboot - that "problem" devices will work properly (I am asking this just in case this is not what I should expect!)
February 10th, 2004, 11:01 AM
confus-ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastermiaow

Yes believe you me that post cost blood,sweat and tears...
So although I had an original Windows 98SE disk this was insufficient to upgrade an older OS? So what is the difference between an upgrade disk and what I have eg. is that upgrade disks can only upgrade and not install an OS after reformat whereas full disks can install after reformat but not upgrade? And can you have both facilities combined on one disk?

Aha but first download site is for IBM 300gl, second is for IBM 300gl 6275 (my friend's model). I assume that modems on first site are not compatible with 6275 otherwise they would be listed on second site.....Please advise.

Yes "the modem working" being the operative phrase!
What I don't understand is why the OS needs to be upgraded before the various drivers will work. Wasn't win98se sufficient in its original format? Do some machines work fine without the upgrades and others not?
Lastly where do you get your smilies from? - my contributions seem very boring in comparison!

I think is what you meant to say ? but the bbs defeated you ? :)

Modem is most likely whatever came in a 300 gl in absence of anything else was what I meant ... worth a go ...

Fixing up of windows refers to operating system flaws & fixes found after release - yup some machines 'need' & others should be ... as for smilies the 'power of the google' is all all you need http://www.smiley-channel.de/grafike...familie022.gif
February 10th, 2004, 11:49 AM
mastermiaow

think I understand you but....

Quote:

Originally Posted by confus-ed

I think is what you meant to say ? but the bbs defeated you ? :)

Not sure what you thought I meant to say and what is bbs?
As far as modems - I'll download all the different modems drivers and then try to install and hopefully one will work - is that the idea?
Found smiley websites but how do I insert (tried copy and paste and "save picture as" but neither seem to work.....)
February 10th, 2004, 01:47 PM
NooNoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastermiaow

OK I will do this but what should I expect on reboot - that "problem" devices will work properly (I am asking this just in case this is not what I should expect!)

Ok having read your posts, I think you believe that 98se is all singing and dancing. It's not. While it has a fair few drivers, it has very few in comparison to what devices are out there that need drivers.

So to answer your question, I couldn't give you a straight yes or no because
a) I don't know what devices you have in your machine
b) I don't know which are problem devices
c) I don't know whether you have the correct drivers
d) I can't remember all the drivers 98se does have.

I was primarily answering your problem about getting the video going correctly. 98se does this great thing where it installs the correct graphics card with a ! and carries on using the pci vga card instead. Annoyingly, unitill you get 98se to give up on the pci vga card, it will not load the correct card and worse still, it cannot load the correct card properly without removing it from the device manager.

My point about the other devices is that if you have the pci vga adapter doing this, you may well find you have two dma drivers - one with a !, more than one keyboard, modem, and often two or more floppy drives etc. Mostly windows will put them back properly, it is just were windows does not have the correct driver natively that causes the most problems.
February 10th, 2004, 02:57 PM
confus-ed

A smilie asside ...

To insert a graphic you put it between img 'tags' inside square brackets ... [ img ]some web address for the image [ /img ] ... (I had to put a space between [ & img each time, for you to see the tags or they would be hidden ;) )
so [ img ] http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/thanks.gif [ /img ] gives https://forums.windrivers.com/
- you can also click any of the graphics on the left & it'll do simple stuff : D is big grin like this :D or : grin : is :grin: a bigger one !

BBS is Bulletin Board Software (your post was mid 'construction' when I saw it) like this is :thumbs:
February 18th, 2004, 05:10 PM
mastermiaow

Can't Get Into Safe Mode

Quote:

Originally Posted by NooNoo

Ok having read your posts, I think you believe that 98se is all singing and dancing. It's not. While it has a fair few drivers, it has very few in comparison to what devices are out there that need drivers.

So to answer your question, I couldn't give you a straight yes or no because
a) I don't know what devices you have in your machine
b) I don't know which are problem devices
c) I don't know whether you have the correct drivers
d) I can't remember all the drivers 98se does have.

I was primarily answering your problem about getting the video going correctly. 98se does this great thing where it installs the correct graphics card with a ! and carries on using the pci vga card instead. Annoyingly, unitill you get 98se to give up on the pci vga card, it will not load the correct card and worse still, it cannot load the correct card properly without removing it from the device manager.

My point about the other devices is that if you have the pci vga adapter doing this, you may well find you have two dma drivers - one with a !, more than one keyboard, modem, and often two or more floppy drives etc. Mostly windows will put them back properly, it is just were windows does not have the correct driver natively that causes the most problems.

Hey just when you thought it was safe to come out again....https://forums.windrivers.com/

I printed out your instructions about booting in safe mood and came armed with them to my friend's house. However I cannot boot to safe mood! I have tried pressing down ctrl key as per instructions in Windows Help file. I have tried pressing F8 (also in Windows98 help file). Nothing works - all I get is "301 keyboard error ". I have tried pressing F5 (advised in Windows startup disk). I did this using the startup disk and then pressing F5 when a:/ came up but just got the @ sign. I thought it might be something to do with IBM doing it differently but I tested with my own Thinkpad and had no trouble getting into Safe Mode via ctrl key. So how the hell do I get into Safe Mode??? I've got there before on this machine (IBM 300gl) but I can't remember how. And if I can't get into Safe Mode I can't delete problem drivers and install correct ones.
Help! HELP MISTRESS NOO NOO (and MASTER CONFUS-ED)!!!! http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/baby.gif
March 1st, 2004, 07:14 AM
mastermiaow

Thanks

Just to let you know that my friend's computer problem was solved by someone else vastly more experienced and expert than myself. I was looking forward to having another bash but in my absence someone else had taken over! Apparently it took him over 4 hours and he was unable to load any of the IBM drivers specific to that model that I had downloaded onto CD. He ended up going to some members only site in New Zealand for the drivers....

So I just want to thank you for all your help ....until the next time.
Hasta la vista baby!

Matthew
March 1st, 2004, 07:45 AM
confus-ed

Glad its fixed - even if not by 'us' :thumbs: ... as a p.s. I'll just say if you 'require immediate attention' on an ongoing thread feel free to pm me - its not always clear if the last advice has been 'superseeded' ;)