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Hey,
Is it dangerous to have a computer running on bare carpet? I've heard some people say that there should always be something to insulate the machine from carpet because of the static electricity in carpet, but if the machine is plugged into a properly-grounded circuit, it shouldn't matter should it? Does the height of the feet make a difference?
TSO
I'd say that's a wives tale. The only "danger" that I can see of having the computer on the ground/carpet is if it were to flood but even still that'd have to be a lot of water to actually reach an electronic component in the case.
[disclaimer]now I'm not saying that some freak occurrence of somebody rubbing their feet for 6 hours on the carpet and then touching the computer wont take it out because I just don't know[/disclaimer]
Here is good advice:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollo
from:http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/...002/static.asp]Quote:
Whenever the casing of a computer is opened and its internal workings are exposed (to change a hard drive or add memory chips, for example), there is a danger of damaging the computer with the buildup of static electricity that is held by the human body. The internal workings of a computer, and especially the hard drive, are extremely susceptible to static electricity, which can cause considerable damage to the hard drive if it is zapped with even a small amount. Microchip damage can occur if it is exposed to static electricity as low as 10 volts, and humans are not able to perceive static electricity until it has reached about 1,500 volts. (Walking across a rug can produce a static electricity voltage of up to 12,000 volts, but static voltage is not life threatening.) So it is possible to damage a hard drive with static electricity that is not even felt by the person because it is at such a low voltage. Also, computers become increasingly susceptible to static electricity damage as more and more circuitry is built into them.
Static electricity is caused by a process called triboelectrification. Everything around us, and including us, is made of atoms, and every atom has in its center (nucleus) positively charged protons and neutrons, which have no electrical charge. Surrounding the atom are negatively charged electrons. The protons and neutrons in an atom do not change, but the electrons can move from one atom to another. When two objects touch, they exchange electrons, which causes one object to become electrically positive and the other to become electrically negative. When an object touches another object with either an opposite or neutral charge, electrons flow. Static electricity is created when electrons move back and forth between atoms.
To avoid zapping your components with static electricity, take precautions to ground the static electricity before touching any of the internal components of the computer. Wearing an ESD wrist strap or working on an anti-static mat will prevent any static electricity from damaging your computer. Another way to ground the static electricity is to touch the internal metal frame of the computer's case while the computer is plugged into an electrical socket. The static electricity will be discharged and grounded as the electrical circuit is grounded via the AC outlet.
Like my locked hard drive? :devil:Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleRLtd
Well yeah meat, I confirmed your discovery.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by meatwad
PS
Hey, we ALL learn something everyday. I always say that my part time job is keeping up with this industry, and being here at WD and hearing all the other techs tales helps me immensely. Once you stop learing...or keeping up with this industry, you are lost. https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2006/04/1.gif Besides, me and Go-low have issues which he won't let go of. That was my rant. https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif
I think you are taking this grudge thing a little too far, someone has to be the big man, I thought you wanted be him…Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleRLtd
There is nothing wrong with a PC being on bare carpet, mine run on shag in my home office. I work on mine at home on the floor all of the time. My server room at work has carpet as well, and maintains a very low humidity, which as you know, the dryer it is the more chance for buildup. What it boils down to is I have to pay particularly more attention to the immediate potential to build up static, and ensure I ground myself at all times before entering a case. It's that simple...I have never shorted a single piece of equipment, and I walk across the room with cards in my hand all of the time, holding the plate only, and grounding myself at every stop.
As a matter of principal, most server rooms are carpet-less, primarily because people forget, or fail to provide adequate grounding before working on a server, and it can eliminate some possibility for shock all the better when dealing with mission critical machines. But at home, no worries…just be careful!
Not being an electrical engineer it seems to me that the problem with static electricity is the difference in potential. You walk across a room and touch something with a different ground potential and that's why you (and it) get shocked. If the PC chassis is touching the carpet it should be at the same potential as the carpet so there should be no difference in potential there. Or so my high school science seems to remind me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ya_know
I'll have to check that thread tomorrow... :thumbs: Good night!Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleRLtd
Um yeah I understand that if he's working inside the computer he's not going to be rubbing his feet on the carpet. His question was if the computer was just sitting there. rgharper's line of thinking sounds about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleRLtd
And since when are you a "pro"? :rolleyes:
Well, that would be: SINCE BEFORE YOU WERE BORN!!!!https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Gollo
PS
That being said: I am STILL learning, EVERYDAY.
PPS
Get over it Go_low, or....
Well, I didn't follow the whole "grudge" thing too well, but I thank everyone who replied on this thread. General Concenses (which is likely mispelled) seems to be that there is no danger to computers just sitting and running on carpet, but (to as always), ground yourself when working with components as well as touch as little circuitry as possible.
The two main potential disadvantages of having a computer on carpet are:
Carpet collects dust, mite faeces etc, and sheds fibres (fluff), if this is stirred up by feet passing by, floor vibrations etc, it is more likely to be sucked up by the air intake if it is at floor level. That is, bigger dust bunnies.
If the carpet is long pile, it could block the cooling air intake most systems have under the lower edge of the front panel. Tower cases that are designed for floor placement often have large elevating legs to give adequate clearance for good air circulation.
Synthetic carpets make static ... & computers & static don't mix ! period ... I just made a contractor pull up 200 yards of carpeting because of that, it was specifically detailed in the project plans to be 'natural', but the so called 'pro's' on site didn't seem to acknowlege this 'danger' either also dismissing it as 'an old wives tale' - they can't though get the certification from their Insururers until its replaced, as to quote their letter "Synthetic carpeting substantially increases the chances of accidental Electro Static Discharge in the the server areas over the stipulated 'natural' floorcoverings, we look forward etc etc etc" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Silent_One_1
I follow the 'whole' grudge thing though unfortunately ... :rolleyes:
Oh & an edit on the subject of 'potentiality' (if I can spell that ! :D)
Errr but of course computers generally live on little iddy biddy rubber feet - so they aren't touching the carpet 'really' , carpet also isn't flat & even (for our 'equally charged' arguement to work) & you aren't stood on the carpet either - you are stood on your shoes & socks which might be synthetic too giving you more 'charge' than anything around you, corners 'sticky out bits' etc also concentrate static discharges & people sweat also increasing their 'potentiality' ... all reasons why I get about 20 shocks a day ;)Quote:
Not being an electrical engineer it seems to me that the problem with static electricity is the difference in potential. You walk across a room and touch something with a different ground potential and that's why you (and it) get shocked. If the PC chassis is touching the carpet it should be at the same potential as the carpet so there should be no difference in potential there. Or so my high school science seems to remind me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleRLtd
YOU are telling HIM to... Ahaa, heh, heh, HAAAAA. LOL!!!! :grin:
OMG, I'm on the floor.
If zaping your case was such a big issue then you would hear a heck of a lot about it as most folks place their machines on carpet.
Oh and just to add my $.02 - Isn't the case and everything else grounded via the big black cord running to the wall from the power supply? My training was that ESD is something you should worry more about when reaching into the case wheteher or not you were on carpet or no. It's the components inside that are delicate and you should exercise care when handling them.
Geeze! Some amazingly nasty posts on this topic. Certainly brightened my day. About the only real problem I have encountered with a computer sitting on carpet, is overheating caused by a poorly vented case that had all the air intake (what little there was to begin with) on the front underside. Totally blocked by a really deep pile carpet.
But speaking of true boneheads and carpet, I have one client who expanded his building, built a new office for himself, installed lovely new carpet, and then moved his computer to the new quarters by turning it onto its side and pushing it along the rug something like 70 or 75 feet. Called me 'cause he was really puzzled when it faied to boot afterwards.
Err, did you actually read the whole thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheusers
Let me add or better yet clarify.... Having a computer on carpet MAY not be a big deal BUT...
1) It does increase the chance of a static discharge that may damage some of the components....
2) The carpet itself may block air flow through the computer causing heat issues
3) The carpet fibers and dust is more likely to get sucked into the computer and cause heat issues... ie gather around heatsinks/chips thereby insulating them or getting in fans and possible slowing and/or stopping them...
Where have you been? This thread is no longer a thread about carpet (forgive the pun). It has instead been contorted into a flame fest! :flame:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard92
I know I was just summing up for the poor person who got caught in the war....
That way he doesn't need to read through all the flames for all the answers..
--- edit ---
this is tech-to-tech the flaming should be left in the lounge IMO! Tech-to-tech SUGGESTS it's professional to professional, not a bunch of kids yelling about who's right and who's wrong.... If you disagree fine say so, but leave the personal stuff in the lounge...
And no this is not a shot at you Ya_know.....
This was my point exactly (although I didn't touch on the ventilation part)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard92
And you're absolutely right. Apologies Silent One. https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2006/04/1.gif But, he did already get through it all:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard92
PSQuote:
Well, I didn't follow the whole "grudge" thing too well, but I thank everyone who replied on this thread. General Concenses (which is likely mispelled) seems to be that there is no danger to computers just sitting and running on carpet, but (to as always), ground yourself when working with components as well as touch as little circuitry as possible.
Edit's on the way.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif
The biggest danger I have seen is from the vacumn cleaner stirring up dust, damaging cords and banging into the machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleRLtd
Yeah, I just felt like bustin' yer chops. :devil:
All in good fun.
Hey!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jitBob
Haaa!Quote:
Originally Posted by NooNoo
Even with the black cord plugged into the back of the machine plugged into a properly grounded outlet we've had people zap their machines into reboots from static charges at work. I've done it myself at home while picking a lighter up off the top of my case. During the winter with all this dry air and heat really generates some major static. Sometimes I don't even like turning on/off the lights in my house, some of the zaps freakin hurt so bad, I can actually see arcs not sparks jumping to the wall plates. ouch!Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheusers
Sounds like you need to get an electrician out to your house to check things out, something is faulty. If I ever saw a spark from my finger to a light switch, I too would not turn it on! Really, something there isn't right if you ask me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Humilliation
NO ... sounds to me like he is highly charged - some folks are more 'static' than others - I can generate sparks to my car !! & there''s no mains supply on my drive ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ya_know
Now if the sparks going the otherway around THEN you do have trouble ;)
Yeah, I get that car thing in the winter, too. A blue spark sometimes when I go to put the key in the lock. I have begun taking antistatic precautions at the gas station!Quote:
Originally Posted by confus-ed
I saw a guy with no concept of ESD kill ten sticks of brand new RAM in a computer store. AND, he was a professor at the local university, teaching Hardware Troubleshooting!
I guess it may be true that they who cannot, teach.
In my experience, it is always a good idea to eliminate any possibility of ESD when doing ANYTHING involving ANY electronic equipment.
It is unbelieveable how not only some "technicians" don't ground themselves before touching circuitry, but how they touch any and all parts of circuit boards when they handle them. That happened a lot at the shop that I used to work at. Now that I'm on my own, I'm interested in seeing if my failure rate of new equipment is significantly lower than the shop's, being that I'm the only one handling it, and trying to take precautions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekboy
Best part about having the computer on the floor is the handy foot rest it gives you. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Silent_One_1
I had a guy bet money that he wouldn't short out a MoBo...that it was all a myth...He manhandled a board, shuffled his feet on the floor, and gave me the whole song and dance. I'll be damned if that MoBo didn't turn out to have a "factory" defect right out of the box... ;) He paid me the money!
I hate static, depending on the time of year ie heat/humidity i'm a frigging battery, my car zaps me, door handles zap me and my cat jumps away when i ground through it. I've only blown one stick of ram to my knowledge. My work watch strap is an esd wriststrap just so i don't forget to wear it and i DO not work on printer anymore :-)
No electrician needed, it's just me clothes. When I first wake up in the morning and turn the same light swithes on I don't get zapped, it only happpens after I shower and get dressed. I guess Cling Free drier sheets don't work worth poop during the winter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ya_know
But like confus-ed said, I can hold a charge real well. I get zapped after I've driven around in my vehicle for a while with the heat on. I've never gotten zapped getting into my vehicle though. I'm 6 ohms hand to hand, what resistance do others here score on an ohm meter?
A few carpet zaps are ok, but what about this..
http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tword23l.htm
Time to shed a few pounds.
https://forums.windrivers.com/
That site doesn't hold much weight since it's basically one of them freak sites. After all, if this http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/ticonw23.gif is its logo, their facts are screwy.Quote:
Originally Posted by eboyjones
It could be that there's no real danger of placing a PC directly on carpet but I have trouble believing that is (completely) true. In any case, why take the chance. If you really must put the PC on the floor, drop a few dollars on a static mat that you can attach to ground.
In my mind the problem isn't so much whether the PC will be properly grounded or not as whether the carpet will be. Most types of carpet can and will develop and hold a static charge. Probably most situations, even the vast majority of situations in which a static potential is built up and discharged, that discharge would follow the computer's path to ground and not hurt anything. It's that one exception situation that bites you in the a$$.
Very few computers are actually placed on a properly grounded surface. Wooden and laminated desktops, non-dissipative tile flooring, otherwise ungrounded metal furniture (my PC at home is on top of a metal filing cabinet but that cabinet is on carpet and is not grounded). but those surfaces don't tend to develop and hold a static charge as carpet does. I see carpet as being kind of like Charlie Brown's friend pigpen, except that the dust cloud is a static cloud. How many times have you seen a piece of metal close to a carpet that was coated with fibers and dust and bits of hair that were obviously attracted there by a static charge. It's not whether the PC is grounded or not, it's that you're placing your PC inside that static pigpen cloud. Why do that? Just give it some distance from that immediate source of danger or place it on a grounded mat that will take care of the problem.
One day while everyone was gone, and there weren't any computers on, three network cards and three ports on my network switch were fried.
The phone cable drops from the ceiling and the modems were fine.
All other cables were off the carpet (thin indoor/outdoor carpet).
The only cables that touched the carpet were the CAT5 network cables. The computers were grounded. There must've been a static jolt that came from the carpet, was picked up by the CAT5 (acting as antennas), and traveled the path of least resistance through the network port, blowing the network I/O, before heading into the grounded computer.
ZAP - $200 worth of damage.
Since no one was home, who knows what caused the static? Maybe the house was hit by lightening, but there wasn't a storm. High dusty wind can cause static buildup. People walking around a house can actually help even out the static here and there. With no one home, it can build until it gets too high and then ZAP.
With customers machines I'm very cautious. I keep them on the bench and handle everything carefully.
Not so much so with my own equipment. My primary machine has sat on carpet for years. I ground myself to the case as a habit.
Once I was working on a PIII 450 slot 1 machine and another tech (who is famous for zapping people with static) walked up and touched the heatsink. The machine instantly powered down. He immediately realized what he did and just stood there with a stunned look. He said he felt the zap and was certain it was static. Killed the cpu. Luckily one of the company machines had a PIII 450 so we put it in and all was well.