What if they say "No thanks?"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...iraq_powell_10

Powell: U.S. Will Help Iraq Create Jobs
Secretary of State Colin Powell promised Iraqi leaders Friday that the United States will speed up spending to rebuild the country's infrastructure and create jobs, and said doing so will help make Iraq safer.

Let me get this straight. We're going to help them create jobs? Us?
With our record on jobs the last 3.5 years?
What if they thanks, but no thanks?

And how come if spending money on infrastructure creates jobs in Iraq we don't try it here?
I thought only tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs?
I admit I'm confus-ed.

Tech's, refute this site for me would you? (Hold your mouse over the picture, you will see his supporters)

http://www.swiftvets.com/

They claim that only two of his old crew are supporting him...and that the remaining survivors and other's that ran missions alongside, or in similar circumstances despise him...explain that would you???

The reason I ask is because your new argument in this thread is weak, and shows no merit. Creating jobs in Iraq is nothing like creating them here. So leave that antagonism alone, for you have nothing to base your argument on.

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Originally Posted by Ya_know

Tech's, refute this site for me would you? (Hold your mouse over the picture, you will see his supporters)

http://www.swiftvets.com/

They claim that only two of his old crew are supporting him...and that the remaining survivors and other's that ran missions alongside, or in similar circumstances despise him...explain that would you???

The reason I ask is because your new argument in this thread is weak, and shows no merit. Creating jobs in Iraq is nothing like creating them here. So leave that antagonism alone, for you have nothing to base your argument on.

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Beautifully responded, Ya_Know. You have a real talent for this! Fully two thirds of your response completely ignores the point, and throws sand in the eyes of the reader by introducing a different subject. When you finally DO address the point in the last paragraph, you have three sentences, two of which essentially say "No, you're wrong." Your one sentence which MIGHT have some debating merit "Creating jobs in Iraq is nothing like creating them here" would have been the THESIS of a serious response... in the above response, it is barely included, one can only assume, to somehow "legitimize" the off-topic counterattacks and unsubstantiated denials...

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Originally Posted by Wayward Clam

Beautifully responded, Ya_Know. You have a real talent for this! Fully two thirds of your response completely ignores the point, and throws sand in the eyes of the reader by introducing a different subject. When you finally DO address the point in the last paragraph, you have three sentences, two of which essentially say "No, you're wrong." Your one sentence which MIGHT have some debating merit "Creating jobs in Iraq is nothing like creating them here" would have been the THESIS of a serious response... in the above response, it is barely included, one can only assume, to somehow "legitimize" the off-topic counterattacks and unsubstantiated denials...

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Damn Canadians! :devil:

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Originally Posted by Wayward Clam

Beautifully responded, Ya_Know. You have a real talent for this! Fully two thirds of your response completely ignores the point, and throws sand in the eyes of the reader by introducing a different subject. When you finally DO address the point in the last paragraph, you have three sentences, two of which essentially say "No, you're wrong." Your one sentence which MIGHT have some debating merit "Creating jobs in Iraq is nothing like creating them here" would have been the THESIS of a serious response... in the above response, it is barely included, one can only assume, to somehow "legitimize" the off-topic counterattacks and unsubstantiated denials...

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I know, it was rather impressive wasn't it... :p

From their "About Us" page. First off its a "public advocacy "527" organization". So it is just like MoveOn. A POLITICAL lobbying organization. Registered as a lobbying organization. So lets start off by saying that. There funding is NOT from swift boat vets. There is an actual swiftboat vets organization that existed long before the campaign and only open to actual swiftboat vets who have to prove they were on swiftboats. They are here http://www.swiftboats.org/
Your link disclaims any association with the actual swiftboat vets site.
Plus I don't see any way for actual swiftboat vets to join this organization.

So therefore there is no need to even discuss it. NOT ONE NAME IS LISTED WITH ONE QUOTE about his service. They have a letter they signed disagreeing with his antiwar statements AFTER he returned home. Geez, you would have to assume there were some of the people in the picture who didn't like him then or now that would give a quote about his sevice.
Come on Ya-Know this is not like you. I would have thought you would have come up with something better
btw I challenge George Bush to find someone to talk about his valiant service during Vietnam.

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Originally Posted by Ya_know

Tech's, refute this site for me would you? (Hold your mouse over the picture, you will see his supporters)

http://www.swiftvets.com/

They claim that only two of his old crew are supporting him...and that the remaining survivors and other's that ran missions alongside, or in similar circumstances despise him...explain that would you???

The reason I ask is because your new argument in this thread is weak, and shows no merit. Creating jobs in Iraq is nothing like creating them here. So leave that antagonism alone, for you have nothing to base your argument on.

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Ya_Know it was the oddest thing. I could swear I saw more than two swiftboat crew members standing alongside Kerry last night. Hmmmm.

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Originally Posted by techs

I would have thought you would have come up with something better

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Very insightful retort, you shredded that site to pieces. I concede. Actually, I had just found the site, (someone I know wanted me to look at it), I thought it was a little fishy, like you said, didn't show any names, I couldn't even figure out how many were even still alive. So, nice jorebe... :thumbs: I'll pass on your information!

Ya_Know I'm calling you out on this swiftboat thing.
I think Ya-Goofed.

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Originally Posted by jitBob

Ya_Know it was the oddest thing. I could swear I saw more than two swiftboat crew members standing alongside Kerry last night. Hmmmm.

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Techs did just fine by himself. No need to submit your 2 cents...I can't offer you any change back since I only carry Hundreds! :butt:

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Originally Posted by techs

Ya_Know I'm calling you out on this swiftboat thing.
I think Ya-Goofed.

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If you waited just a minute you'd see my consession response. Don't get so jumpy with that post button...

I posted at the same time as your previous.
You are a worthy adversary. You admit your mistakes.
Kudos

dood!

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Originally Posted by techs

I posted at the same time as your previous.
You are a worthy adversary. You admit your mistakes.
Kudos

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I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a mistake. I wanted to research the site, but didn't want to waste my time, so I figured I'd waste your's with a little baiting. Worked pretty good if you ask me...

:devil:

dood! Ya_Get kudos for this one. I'm trying to learn to admit when I'm wrong too. Trouble is, it happens so rarely when you're on the other side. :p :flame: :D

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Originally Posted by Wayward Clam

Beautifully responded, Ya_Know. You have a real talent for this! Fully two thirds of your response completely ignores the point, and throws sand in the eyes of the reader by introducing a different subject. When you finally DO address the point in the last paragraph, you have three sentences, two of which essentially say "No, you're wrong." Your one sentence which MIGHT have some debating merit "Creating jobs in Iraq is nothing like creating them here" would have been the THESIS of a serious response... in the above response, it is barely included, one can only assume, to somehow "legitimize" the off-topic counterattacks and unsubstantiated denials...

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Good "editorial" Clam. Sounds like a description of politics, if you ask me. https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gifhttps://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2006/04/1.gif

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Originally Posted by Ya_know

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a mistake. I wanted to research the site, but didn't want to waste my time, so I figured I'd waste your's with a little baiting. Worked pretty good if you ask me...

:devil:

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The greatest sadness of this most important presidential campaign has been things like the website you linked.
Instead of debating the issues both candidates have had to defend themselves from this kind of nonsense.
Kerry and Edwards called for a high road campaign. Hopefully Bush and Cheney will agree.
But I ain't holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by techs

The greatest sadness of this most important presidential campaign has been things like the website you linked.
Instead of debating the issues both candidates have had to defend themselves from this kind of nonsense.
Kerry and Edwards called for a high road campaign. Hopefully Bush and Cheney will agree.
But I ain't holding my breath.

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They call for a high road campaign, but take shots right from their own mouths, along with all the others that were quoted from the democratic convention. What was it that, I think it was Clinton that quoted something from the first president in that Whitehouse, about only the wise and whatever should command from under this roof, and should we elect Kerry that will ring true again...That's underhanded, and not the high road. So don't attempt to fool me with your pretences...

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Originally Posted by techs

The greatest sadness of this most important presidential campaign has been things like the website you linked.

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And I agree with you completely on this point, but from the perspective of both candidates as this has happened on both sides.

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Originally Posted by Ya_know

They call for a high road campaign, but take shots right from their own mouths, along with all the others that were quoted from the democratic convention. What was it that, I think it was Clinton that quoted something from the first president in that Whitehouse, about only the wise and whatever should command from under this roof, and should we elect Kerry that will ring true again...That's underhanded, and not the high road. So don't attempt to fool me with your pretences...

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I wonder if Kerry really had much control over what Clinton said. And as far as the high road that was basically saying the President is not wise. I don't think that compares t the incessant attacks for example that attacked Kerrys war record.
Anyway almost every commentator praised the restraint the Kerry-Edwards put on Bush bashing.
Lets see the President respond in kind.

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Originally Posted by techs

Anyway almost every commentator praised the restraint the Kerry-Edwards put on Bush bashing.
Lets see the President respond in kind.

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Would that be all of the liberal media that was praising them... :rolleyes:

And as far as the restraint, it's about time...the entire Democratic campaign from the beginning has been bashing Bush...and very low down...so let's not cast stones there d00d. If anything Bush has been responding with kind and scope to what he’s received.

I have not seen ONE tv commercial attacking Bush by Kerry. MoveOn did some but even they could not legally attack him (rules of 527 organization)
But 90 percent of the Bush ads were attack ads against kerry.

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Originally Posted by techs

I have not seen ONE tv commercial attacking Bush by Kerry. MoveOn did some but even they could not legally attack him (rules of 527 organization)
But 90 percent of the Bush ads were attack ads against kerry.

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So now you're (conveniently so, btw) only using TV ads to support your conclusion that only the Bush campaign is using an "attack" strategy? I beg to differ. And all the "barbs" coming from the convention prove it. And you are an echo of them, too:

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Originally Posted by techs

"When it comes to choosing a president, results matter." George Bush
The best argument yet to defeat Bush.

"At least I'm not President Bush!" Isn't that what people say after they do something really stupid?

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Heck, you even admit as much in the "Best JABS at the convention" thread.

For the record, here's Clintons exact words:

"Their opponents will tell you to be afraid of John Kerry and John Edwards, because they won’t stand up to the terrorists—don’t you believe it. Strength and wisdom are not conflicting values—they go hand in hand. John Kerry has both. His first priority will be keeping America safe. Remember the scripture: Be Not Afraid."

Transcripts for all the Democratic speeches can be found here

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Originally Posted by WebHead

For the record, here's Clintons exact words:

"Their opponents will tell you to be afraid of John Kerry and John Edwards, because they won’t stand up to the terrorists—don’t you believe it. Strength and wisdom are not conflicting values—they go hand in hand. John Kerry has both. His first priority will be keeping America safe. Remember the scripture: Be Not Afraid."

Transcripts for all the Democratic speeches can be found here

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Then it was somebody else that said it, quoted John Adams inscribed on a plaque or something that's in the Whitehouse...

Don't bother, Webby, Ya_Know doesn't believe there is any value in researching the points you make :D

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Originally Posted by Wayward Clam

Don't bother, Webby, Ya_Know doesn't believe there is any value in researching the points you make :D

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Isn't there a GoBots marathon on somewhere that you should be watching... :redeyes:

:p

The difference that I see is that the Dems are attacking Bush's obvious lack of intelligence and his record over the last four years.

The Republicans are just flat out making stuff up to try to make Kerry look bad. If there was even a single swiftboat guy that served with Kerry and was against him, I'm 100% sure the Repub's would have that guy plastered all over the news. If the people who served alongside him don't have a problem with the way he served then neither do I.

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Originally Posted by imaeditedbysowulo

The difference that I see is that the Dems are attacking Bush's obvious lack of intelligence and his record over the last four years.

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And the Bush campaign has been after Kerry for his flip flop voting record over the last...what, 30 years?

The thing about the swift boats came about because everyone was going after Bush's National Guard record, so again, kind and scope the fire was returned. Not to mention, Kerry's protesting, and singling out of his comrades in arms as "baby Killers" doesn't sit well with far to many vets. Sure, his war record seems to finally speak for itself (all 4 months of it), but his protesting doesn’t go away by some guy he pulled out of a hostile area saying he’d vote for Kerry...which consequently pulling the guy to safety was his job to do, decoration wasn’t part of the job, certainly not transferring to the states because you received 3 minor injuries was not part of the job…a hero he may be, for a few guys, but he’s not a war hero…he’s a phony.

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Originally Posted by imaeditedbysowulo

The difference that I see is that the Dems are attacking Bush's obvious lack of intelligence and his record over the last four years.

The Republicans are just flat out making stuff up to try to make Kerry look bad. If there was even a single swiftboat guy that served with Kerry and was against him, I'm 100% sure the Repub's would have that guy plastered all over the news. If the people who served alongside him don't have a problem with the way he served then neither do I.

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See, now there you go with "Bush's OBVIOUS lack of intelligence.
Obvious??? How, in fact, is this man stupid?
And, I do agree the attacks on Kerry's war record and post-service protests were ill-advised to say the least, and I "told" Ya_know what I thought about that in another thread. But damn he has one hard head.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gifhttps://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2006/04/1.gif

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Originally Posted by TripleRLtd

See, now there you go with "Bush's OBVIOUS lack of intelligence.
Obvious??? How, in fact, is this man stupid?
And, I do agree the attacks on Kerry's war record and post-service protests were ill-advised to say the least, and I "told" Ya_know what I thought about that in another thread. But damn he has one hard head.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gifhttps://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2006/04/1.gif

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I don't remember, what was it that you told me??? Oh yeah that's right. Just because he's a self proclaimed "war hero" I should leave his record alone. He earned his right, and paid his dues...that's right, however when he sold out his comrades...he lost that right.

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Originally Posted by TripleRLtd

See, now there you go with "Bush's OBVIOUS lack of intelligence.
Obvious??? How, in fact, is this man stupid?
And, I do agree the attacks on Kerry's war record and post-service protests were ill-advised to say the least, and I "told" Ya_know what I thought about that in another thread. But damn he has one hard head.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gifhttps://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2006/04/1.gif

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Maybe stupid isn't the most accurate word, maybe ignorant is a better word.

My opinion is based off listening to the man attempt speaking the English language on numerous different occasions. He mangles it. He can't pronounce nuclear and he just comes off as an extremely simple minded person to me.

Nuthin wrong with that, as I consider myself a fairly simple minded and easily amused person. However, I don't think I should be president, and neither should Dubbaya.

They could come out with pictures of Kerry dressed up in women's clothes getting whipped by his wife, I'd still vote for him.

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Originally Posted by Ya_know

I don't remember, what was it that you told me??? Oh yeah that's right. Just because he's a self proclaimed "war hero" I should leave his record alone. He earned his right, and paid his dues...that's right, however when he sold out his comrades...he lost that right.

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Nope. Here's what I said to you:
http://forums.windrivers.com/showpos...8&postcount=20

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Originally Posted by imaeditedbysowulo

My opinion is based off listening to the man attempt speaking the English language on numerous different occasions. He mangles it. He can't pronounce nuclear and he just comes off as an extremely simple minded person to me.

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Have you ever done public speaking??? Some people have a knack for it, while others, no matter how hard they try, just don't get it. Bush is one of those people that doesn't do well in that arena. What matters most (although the public speaking does represent him it’s only a small percentage of his net worth) is what he does in the office...

Surly you aren’t basing your entire argument on that simple well know fact???

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Originally Posted by TripleRLtd

Nope. Here's what I said to you:
http://forums.windrivers.com/showpos...8&postcount=20

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Same thing:

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Originally Posted by Ya_know

Oh yeah that's right. Just because he's a self proclaimed "war hero" I should leave his record alone. He earned his right, and paid his dues

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Oh yeah that's right. Just because he's a self proclaimed "war hero" I should leave his record alone. He earned his right, and paid his dues

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Not at all. Go after him for his record, and his platform (or lack thereof), self-proclaimed war hero or not. But honestly, your stance on his service record was not your smartest move here.

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Originally Posted by Ya_know

Have you ever done public speaking??? Some people have a knack for it, while others, no matter how hard they try, just don't get it. Bush is one of those people that doesn't do well in that arena. What matters most (although the public speaking does represent him it’s only a small percentage of his net worth) is what he does in the office...

Surly you aren’t basing your entire argument on that simple well know fact???

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This is actually a point I agree with--your skill as a public speaker does not equate to your wisdom or potential value in an office. Not sure why I am making a point of agreeing with it; maybe just to prove that I am physically capable of agreeing with Ya_Know when he actually makes sense. :thumbs:

I just want to see my name as the last poster in ever thread in Politicos.