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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...rry_vietnam_dc
John Kerry commanding officer in Vietnam has backed away from attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate, saying he made a mistake in accusing the U.S. senator of having lied about his wartime record.
Elliott said: "It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."
Elliott told the newspaper he thinks Kerry did deserve the medal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by techs
Wonder how much Tereeeeeeeza paid him to come out with that statement.
(Lifetime supply of ketchup????)
I smell a rat.
https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif
I smell a libel lawsuit against him. He obviously lied or was decieved. He may not have realized giving knowingly false slander can get you sued. And the guys that put up the money for this whole fiasco would could also be sued if they knowlingly contributed.Quote:
Originally Posted by pmetal
I expect to see an apology by Ya_know here.
Unforutnely, that will never happen
I still hold out hope for him. Strange but true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleetus
What are you two saying, that I am not an honorable man, and that I can't admit mistakes, or harsh judgments? Clam himself has commended me more than once for that demeanor. I spat on you both, just for that, I won't apologize... :p
Not like I was going to anyway...if you read back, most of what I said was referring to "should these accusations be true", so I am not liable for any apology, but I will certainly admit that they were wrong…again, I am not the one accusing anybody, so I can’t be wrong, just picked the wrong dudes to listen to.
Besides, this scrutiny isn't over yet by a long shot. that's one guy pulling out...there’s still many more accusers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ya_know
Besides, this scrutiny isn't over yet by a long shot. that's one guy pulling out...there’s still many more accusers.
And you will probably believe them without evidence. You so want Kerry not to be a hero you are looking for anything. Twice you have "proven" he wasn't a hero only to be proved wrong. This episode just proves that smears and slander have become valid political debate.
This whole smear campaign against Kerry disgusts me. It has turned politics into some kind of Page Six contest.
A large part of this is Rupert Murdhoch and his Fox channel. When a political propaganda company claims to be a "news" organization and uses opinion as fact our country is in bad shape.
I call on Ya_know to disavow the smear campaign against Kerry's VietNam record. I call upon him to acknowlege Kerry is a war hero. If he does maybe we can move on to the issues that matter.
If he does not I call on him to drop out of the Politcos presidency race.
What if we just drop the hero siht and just say he served and was awarded medals for valor?
By definition that is a hero. Give the guy the credit he deserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleetus
Quote:
Originally Posted by techs
Maybe now you can stop with the smear campaign against George W. Bush's National Guard service record?
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
Do the letters FO mean anything to you??? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by techs
Far Out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ya_know
Close enough... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by techs
Here's another update:
Commander retracts retraction:
Now he says he didn't retract anything.
The Boston Herald says it stands by their story. They say the reporters handwritten notes and a second witness are proof.
The Boston Herald also found that in 1996 the Commmander made the statement "John Kerry is a true American hero" and other flattering remarks when interviewed by other news organizations about Kerry.
I think maybe this guy is a little wacky, don't you?
Takes one ta_know one, they say :D
Unlike Anne Heche I pick a team and stick with it.
Here's some more wackiness.
By now people have heard so many outright distortions and lies that they probably are confused. Which works for the Republicans.Quote:
A key figure in a book and ad campaign questioning Democratic Presidential Candidate John F. Kerry's war record recanted his claims and now has recanted his recant.
Elliott told Kranish he regretted signing the affidavit and did so because he was rushed. He added that he felt Kerry had served honorably and deserved his medals.
The stories sparked a rash of controversy on conservative talk radio shows, fueled by an erroneous report on the Drudge Report that Kranish had worked on the Kerry campaign and written the introduction for a campaign-authorized book on Kerry.
Elliott has a record of changing his stories when it comes to Kerry.
In 1996, he appeared in Boston for Kerry's Senate campaign, defending the candidate against charges of hyping his war record, saying Kerry "acted properly and deserved the Silver Star (one of the medals Kerry won while serving in Vietnam)."
Even a self proclaimed patriot like Ya_Know still refuses to give Kerry his due as a war hero and posts any link from any source suggesting he wasn't.
Remember this when you cast your vote for the President of Politicos. War heroes are disrespected by Ya-Know.
You're kind of missing the point here... Ya_Know doesn't discriminate against war heroes. He disrespects EVERYBODY. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by techs
Thanks for clearing that up! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Clam
Techs, for the record, I think Kerry is a turd. War hero or not. I am not showing him one bit of it for his character.
If he's a war hero, that’s fine. I’ll respect a moment of the man’s life when he reacted well in combat. But the rest of his life I consider shameful, and petty.
So let's clear it up once and for all Techs. The guy never did back down, the Boston news paper is the one providing the twist...Quote:
Originally Posted by techs
Check this out:::Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong
Read the thing thoroughly, you'll enjoy it.
Here's a way that John Kerry can divert attention from his four months in Vietnam.
He can cite some other accomplishments from his life that he believes would impress the voters.
He can tell us of the great and wonderful things he did as the Lt. Governor of Massachusetts.
He can regale us with some war stories from his days as a prosecutor.
Hell, he might even tell us how he managed to seduce two incredibly rich women into his (marital) bed. I'm sure that there are a lot of young men just out of the service who would love to learn that little stunt.
Then ... for a real stretch, Kerry can tell us all of the great and wonderful things he accomplished in his 20 year Senate history. He's campaigning on the theme of a "Stronger America." Perhaps he can explain how all of his votes against funding for intelligence gathering and against the very weapons systems we're using today to kill terrorists in the Middle East made America stronger.
Well, it figures. Finally I get something over on Techs, and he doesn't have the common decency to show up and take his medicine...oh well...anyone else care to take that on?
From Amazon.com:
Unfit for Command : Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry
Quote:
John O'Neill was the naval officer who took over John Kerry's swift boat in the muddy waters of Vietnam. What he learned convinced him-and convinced the majority of veterans who served directly with Kerry-that John Kerry was and is unfit for command at the lowliest rank in the Navy, let alone as commander in chief of the United States.
Quote:
Based on detailed interviews with Swift Boat veterans who served in Vietnam with John Kerry and on recently released FBI surveillance reports of John Kerry's anti-war activities, Unfit for Command is a shocking indictment of a politician who slandered his fellow veterans, danced on the edge of treason, and has shamelessly exaggerated his own war service for political ends.
Transcript from "The Dick Cavett Show"Quote:
About the Author
John O'Neill served in Coastal Division 11 in Vietnam and took command of PCF 94, John Kerry's swift boat, after Kerry's departure. Outraged by Kerry's anti-war slanders against his fellow veterans, O'Neill faced Kerry in a famous debate on the Dick Cavett Show in 1971 refuting Kerry's accusations of rampant American war crimes in Vietnam. A graduate of the Naval Academy, and from a Navy family, O'Neill is a lawyer in private practice in Houston.
Quote:
We encountered a variety of problems: unemployment, discrimination, other problems, and then we encountered the biggest problem of them all, the big lie by Mr. Kerry and his group, that we were either each individually war criminals or that we were collectively the executioners of a criminal policy.
Silver Star, Bronze star.
Does ANYONE pay attention to JaxSon?
Buh Bye.
They did the same to Max Cleland in 2002 saying he was a traitor, they have no shame...
Ya think so? My understanding is that Anne Coulter pointed out that Max lost his limbs picking up a grenade that he or someone else dropped and that there was nothing 'heroic' about the act. That statement was, in turn, spun by the 'non existant' liberal media into your current interpretation and perception of 'traitor'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleetus
I voted against Max. His political stance made him appear to many Georgians, a majority of voters anyway, as nothing more than Tom Daschle's lapdog.
If you want to use the word traitor try using it on Kerry. He fit the bill with his either second hand or criminal testimony and actions after the war which gave aid and comfort to the enemy.
So it is not OK to speak your mind in the land of the free???Quote:
Originally Posted by silencio
Jane Fonda gave aid to the enemy during the war going so far as to travel to North VietNam and lend her name to their cause, John Kerry killed the enemy, just a little difference.https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif
Good grief. Let it just die out. What Kerry and Bush did during that time in our chaotic history should not matter today. A person can change his or her attitudes, beliefs, values, and opinions in a 30 year span. Those 2 should be looked at for what they have done recently, and what they want for the future.
Let it go already people sheesh.
Yeah, lets forget all this and haul out Kerry's Senate record for all to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediab
I'm sure it will show that he sticks to his principles and keeps his word.
Oh wait, did I just say that? LMAO :p :p
Could you direct me to all these votes he flip-flopped on and what the riders were on all the bills?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil
Once again. The Boston Herald one of the most conservative newspapers in the country stands by its story.
Also, Elliot is on RECORD as praising Kerrys VietNam record and medals and supporting him in his last election for the Senate.
Also, the link posted by iltu swiftvets.com doesn't say who sponsered it, or paid for it. Therefore it is almost certain NOT to be a swiftvet organization.
Once again we see the bottom feeding Republicans attempting to smear a hero while supporting a man who avoided combat.
For shame.
Can either of them offer me more pictures of Seeker?
Can either party offer me a party?
John Kerry's Flip FlopsQuote:
Originally Posted by Cleetus
It lists House Resolution Bill numbers with most of them and his quotes with others. You must be patient tho...as there are literally tons to go through.
Bush has flip flopped way more than ANY president or politician EVER.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/3/7/213753/1954
http://www.flipfloppingbush.com/
Just a few to whet your appetite:
Bush opposed the McCain-Feingold bill in the 2000 GOP primary, tried to kill it in Congress, and then signed it when it passed.
http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry022102.shtml
Bush is against a Homeland Security Department; then he's for it.
Bush is against a 9/11 commission; then he's for it.
Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation; then he's for it.
Bush is against nation building; then he's for it.
Bush is against deficits; then he's for them.
Bush is for free trade; then he's for tariffs on steel; then he's against them again.
Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict; then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.
Bush is for states right to decide on gay marriage, then he is for changing the constitution.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...bush.marriage/
Bush first says he'll provide money for first responders (fire, police, emergency), then he doesn't.
http://www.hillnews.com/news/032603/funds.aspx
Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military ... then he cuts benefits.}
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...ns/health.html
Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.
Bush claims to be in favor of the environment and then secretly starts drilling on Padre Island.
Bush talks about helping education and increases mandates while cutting funding.
Bush claims to be for women's rights and then nominates judges who have tried to overturn Roe v. Wade.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20000703&s=corn
Bush first says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea. Now he will.
Bush goes to Bob Jones University. Then say's he shouldn't have.
Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to sanction military action against Iraq. Later Bush announced he would not call for a vote
Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by the sailors. Bush later admits it was his advance team.
Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who enter the US. Bush after meeting with Pres. Fox, he's against it.
Bush says he's in favor of adding carbon dioxide as a regulated greenhouse gas. Then Bush said it would not be included.
Bush was against Nation Building. ooops Iraq.
Bush-"I'm a uniter, not a divider." Then divides.
Bush was against amnesty for illegal aliens. Now he's for it.
Bush was against Presidents doing an end run around Congress to pack the courts. Then he did it.
Bush said the war would cost $3 billion. Then he asked for 87 billion.
Bush We need to go to war with Iraq because their WMDs pose a direct threat to the
United States. Bush- We needed to go to war with Iraq to free the Iraqi people.
Bush implemented No Child Left Behind, then underfunded it by $9 Billion"?
As governor of Texas, Bush opposed a strong patients' bill of rights that nevertheless passed over his veto. On the 2000 campaign trail, he tried to take credit for the law and implied he would support comparable legislation on the national level.
Bush proposed a temporary tax cut conditioned on the idea that the government could afford it without spending the Social Security surplus; then, when the surplus vanished, he supported a further tax cut. Now he wants his first cut made permanent.
Two things missing,Quote:
Originally Posted by JaxSon
one is the riders on the bill
and the other was the way the rest of the party was voting
Very infulential on how things get voted on...
While I can't help you with what riders are on which bills, (you'll have to research that for yourself) it does list how the parties voted.
Examples:
Kerry Voted Against Senate Passage Of Iraq/Afghanistan Reconstruction Package
Kerry Called For Cancellation Of Missile Defense Systems In 1984 And Has Voted Against Funding For Missile Defense At Least 53 Times Between 1985 And 2000.Quote:
(S. 1689, CQ Vote #400: Passed 87-12: R 50-0; D 37-11; I 0-1, 10/17/03, Kerry Voted Nay)
This is from the guy that wants to be the Commander-in-Chief.Quote:
S. 1160, CQ Vote #99: Rejected 21-78: R 2-50; D 19-28, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #100: Rejected 38-57: R 6-45; D 32-12, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #101: Rejected 36-59: R 1-49; D 35-10, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #103: Rejected 33-62: R 28-22; D 5-40, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Nay; H.J. Res. 465, CQ Vote #365: Motion Agreed To 64-32: R 49-2; D 15-30, 12/10/85, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4515, CQ Vote #122: Ruled Non-Germane 45-47: R 7-42; D 38-5, 6/6/86, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2638, CQ Vote #176: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 41-11; D 9-38, 8/5/86, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2638, CQ Vote #177: Rejected 49-50: R 10-42; D 39-8, 8/5/86, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1174, CQ Vote #248: Motion Agreed To 58-38: R 8-37; D 50-1, 9/17/87, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1174, CQ Vote #259: Motion Agreed To 51-50: R 37-9; D 13-41, With Vice President Bush Casting An “ Yea “ Vote, 9/22/87, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #124: Motion Agreed To 66-29: R 38-6; D 28-23, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #125: Motion Agreed To 50-46: R 38-7; D 12-39, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #126: Motion Rejected 47-50: R 38-6; D 9-44, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #128: Motion Rejected 48-50: R 6-39; D 42-11, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2355, CQ Vote #136: Motion Agreed To 56-37: R 9-34; D 47-3, 5/13/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2355, CQ Vote #137: Motion Agreed To 51-43: R 38-5; D 13-38, 5/13/88, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4264, CQ Vote #251: Motion Rejected 35-58: R 35-9; D 0-49, 7/14/88, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4781, CQ Vote #296: Motion Agreed To 50-44: R 5-39; D 45-5, 8/5/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1352, CQ Vote #148: Motion Agreed To 50-47: R 37-6; D 13-41, 7/27/89, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #202: Rejected 34-66: R 27-18; D 7-48, 9/26/89, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #213: Adopted 53-47: R 39-6; D 14-41, 9/28/89, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2884, CQ Vote #223: Adopted 54-44: R 2-42; D 52-2, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #225: Motion Agreed To 56-41: R 39-4; D 17-37, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2884, CQ Vote #226: Motion Agreed To 54-43: R 37-6; D 17-37, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 5803, CQ Vote #319: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4739, CQ Vote #320: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #168: Rejected 39-60: R 4-39; D 35-21, 7/31/91, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #171: Motion Agreed To 60-38: R 40-3; D 20-35, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #172: Motion Agreed To 64-34: R 39-4; D 25-30, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #173: Rejected 46-52: R 5-38; D 41-14, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #207: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 38-5; D 12-44, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 4990, CQ Vote #108: Adopted 90-9: R 34-9; D 56-0, 5/21/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #182: Motion Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3114, CQ Vote #214: Rejected 48-50: R 5-38; D 43-12, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #215: Adopted 52-46: R 39-4; D 13-42, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 5504, CQ Vote #228: Adopted 89-4: R 36-4; D 53-0, 9/22/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1298, CQ Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, 9/9/93, Kerry Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 63, CQ Vote #64: Rejected 40-59: R 2-42; D 38-17, 3/22/94, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1026, CQ Vote #354: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 47-6; D 4-42, 8/3/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1087, CQ Vote #384: Rejected 45-54: R 5-49; D 40-5, 8/10/95, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1087, CQ Vote #397: Passed 62-35: R 48-4; D 14-31, 9/5/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1530, CQ Vote #399: Passed 64-34: R 50-3; D 14-31, 9/6/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1530, CQ Vote #608: Adopted 51-43: R 47-2; D 4-41, 12/19/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1635, CQ Vote #157: Rejected 53-46: R 52-0; D 1-46, 6/4/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1745, CQ Vote #160: Rejected 44-53: R 4-49; D 40-4, 6/19/96, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1745, CQ Vote #187: Passed 68-31: R 50-2; D 18-29, 7/10/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 936, CQ Vote #171: Rejected 43-56: R 2-53; D 41-3, 7/11/97, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1873, CQ Vote #131: Motion Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 5/13/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #262: Motion Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 9/9/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #178: Motion Agreed To 52-48: R 52-3; D 0-45, 7/13/00, Kerry Voted Nay)