What do you guys think about this?

Job to do: To move a managers email from his desktop (P3) to a laptop (P3 700MHz)

Here's what I did:
- First,.. set both accounts to "save to server" so as to not lose any email.

- Copied all PST's over the network to the laptop.

- Launched Outlook and opened PSTs. It found all of them and worked fine.

- 3 of the PSTs ranged in size from 1.2G to 1.9G

- Because main PST was so big, I started to "move" some email over to a new PST to relieve it a bit. Outlook then locks up,.. PST file blows up. By this time, since I thought I had it working already,... I had turned off "save to server". Now todays email is gone because of a combo of crappy laptop vs PST file that is WAAAAY too big. I do have a backup copy of the PST and I can repair it, but it's going to take some time. He needs it now. But thats not my problem.

Here's the problem: Now this guy is questioning my competence. He's asking me "have you ever done this before". Uh yeah,.. like a gazllion times. So what do I say about this? Should I just let it go and hope it's done? I can't explain the problem because he doesn't understand the problem. All he knows is that the IT guy lost some email. I try to explain why the email got lost and he doesn't want to hear it. It's a lose lose for me no matter what I do.

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Originally Posted by WebHead

Job to do: To move a managers email from his desktop (P3) to a laptop (P3 700MHz)

Here's what I did:
- First,.. set both accounts to "save to server" so as to not lose any email.

- Copied all PST's over the network to the laptop.

- Launched Outlook and opened PSTs. It found all of them and worked fine.

- 3 of the PSTs ranged in size from 1.2G to 1.9G

- Because main PST was so big, I started to "move" some email over to a new PST to relieve it a bit. Outlook then locks up,.. PST file blows up. By this time, since I thought I had it working already,... I had turned off "save to server". Now todays email is gone because of a combo of crappy laptop vs PST file that is WAAAAY too big. I do have a backup copy of the PST and I can repair it, but it's going to take some time. He needs it now. But thats not my problem.

Here's the problem: Now this guy is questioning my competence. He's asking me "have you ever done this before". Uh yeah,.. like a gazllion times. So what do I say about this? Should I just let it go and hope it's done? I can't explain the problem because he doesn't understand the problem. All he knows is that the IT guy lost some email. I try to explain why the email got lost and he doesn't want to hear it. It's a lose lose for me no matter what I do.

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explain what happened then explain why it's his fault for not keeping his email cleaned organized and archived properly.

guys dont have a excange server or anything dont use ost files?

One thing about outlook it pst files can only hold 2 gb of mails anything over that outlook currupts the file. says on there site. Tell him this was the ebst I could do, and he should clean his emails. if he really needs them then print them out and file them.

I get this all the time at my work also. they keep everything, sent, inbox and deleted

So based on what you guys are saying,.. it sounds like I'm not the only one who has to deal with this sort of thing. Sometimes these managers cause me to question my own abilities. I know I shouldn't let them do that,.. but still.

As far as an exchange server goes,.. I can only dream of having a proper exchange server. I can only dream. I am stuck with individual client PSTs.

I've also mentioned that I'd like to go through some training with them on proper email file management,.. but of course they won't listen to that either.

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Originally Posted by kato2274

explain what happened then explain why it's his fault for not keeping his email cleaned organized and archived properly.

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I did. His response was that "the computer should conform to my needs not my needs conform to the computer". Can you believe that?

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Originally Posted by WebHead

I did. His response was that "the computer should conform to my needs not my needs conform to the computer". Can you believe that?

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ahahha

tell him to take it up with microsoft then, you didnt write the application

Dealt w/ the same issue at my old office. Insisted on having one email address shared by the entire office. Huge pst used to lock up on a regular basis. Finally had to break it up into 10 files. I don't trust pst's over 1gb.

BTW, when outlook does lock up in that situation, as long as the hard drive light is going, just let it sit. Believe it or not, it will come back to life in 10-15 minutes.

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Originally Posted by +Daemon+

ahahha

tell him to take it up with microsoft then, you didnt write the application

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Yeah,.. I did and thats when he began questioning my competence.

Now I have recovered the email that came in today. So I go up there to get those emails into his Outlook and now he's giving me F'ing attitude. I mean c'mon!! I'm trying to help these people, doing the best I can with what little i have to work with and they F'ing spit on me like this. It's completely ridiculous. Nobodies got my back. :sad:

Tonight is the company holiday party. I plan on getting some views aired tonight thats for sure.

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Originally Posted by WebHead

I did. His response was that "the computer should conform to my needs not my needs conform to the computer". Can you believe that?

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Say to him: "Why yes indeed it should, but unfortunately it is only a stupid machine with limitations unlike you and your limitless capacities, so we are forced to work within the machines boundries and sometimes that requires us to suffer a little inconvience" Then walk away muttering under your breath "Dick Head" A mild jab at worst and a subtle hint at least.

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Originally Posted by WebHead

...Tonight is the company holiday party. I plan on getting some views aired tonight thats for sure.

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Be carefull what you say there. A lot of people become unemployed shortly after the office party.

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Originally Posted by jitBob

Be carefull what you say there. A lot of people become unemployed shortly after the office party.

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Yeah true. The problem is solved for now so I think I'll try to just cool off and move on. I can't wait for the new year. I've already got my resume out and I'm dusting it off. Just trying to make it through this holiday season before i start looking for new work.

Never hurts to ghost a manager's box before tinkering with it...

Or at least check the browser cache for any material that may persuade him not to discuss the matter any further ;)

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Originally Posted by WebHead

I did. His response was that "the computer should conform to my needs not my needs conform to the computer". Can you believe that?

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Completely hijacking this :eek2: .. (so I shan't ;) - that's a notion worthy of further consideration ! so continued on this one .. A Question for Webby & the rest of you 'philosphers' .. )

As for my technical view of proceedings here .. well you were doing everything right except knowing this from Husdonsmith ..

"..don't trust pst's over 1gb. " :thumbs:

I'm not dealing with Exchange, but with a Lotus Domino server.. anyway, I have users who think email should be archived forever. Fixed this in a very easy way, set a maximum database size on the server to 1GB and a warning at 800MB.. when they exceed 1GB they cannot send any more mail so they HAVE TO delete some.. or archive locally and save to CD if they really care about it. From what I remember Exchange has a limit on the mailbox size too... might be worth looking into...

That problem was not your fault at all, as it was mentioned before outlook pst files crap out at 2gb, it's his fauly for pushing the limit. What you could have done, however is created an archive pst file of all his archaic emails that he just has hanging around but doesn't really use anymore and moved most of his carp to that, and then copy a majorly reduced copy of the main pst file over. To go further with that you could burn the archived pst to a dvd for him to keep isn case he ever needs one of those messages.
That's the way I handle that situation anyway.

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Originally Posted by WebHead

I've also mentioned that I'd like to go through some training with them on proper email file management,.. but of course they won't listen to that either.

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THIS is your company's problem. User's can piss and moan about their computer problems all day, but what you've seen and already explained to him (though he doesn't want to listen) is that the staff is no properly trained to operate the software. What you need to do is type up a proposal to your boss explaining that during some switchovers you discovered that some employees weren't properly using their software and that a training seminar or in house session would benefit everyone to prevent problems like that in the future.

With people like this, I find analogies work best.

Ask him what car he has, then ask him for the volume of the trunk. Then say that his pst file is like his trunk, it has a finite size. If he does the smart alec reply about, ok I'll buy a lorry, then you can point out that a lorry is loaded one pallet at a time and each pallet has a finite ability to take a load.

People think computers can bend to their will - true, but only so far and the ability to bend to a will is directly linked to the to the budget :D

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Originally Posted by CeeBee

I'm not dealing with Exchange, but with a Lotus Domino server.. anyway, I have users who think email should be archived forever. Fixed this in a very easy way, set a maximum database size on the server to 1GB and a warning at 800MB.. when they exceed 1GB they cannot send any more mail so they HAVE TO delete some.. or archive locally and save to CD if they really care about it. From what I remember Exchange has a limit on the mailbox size too... might be worth looking into...

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This would not be an option for me. Basically they have become accustomed to using email as a quick and easy FTP client. In other words,.. attachments galore. I ask them to save the attachments locally and then delete emails, but then I get told that the computer should conform to their needs. One nice thing is that I moved out email over to an outside hosting. This essentially forces them to conform the hosting specifications (which helps me out a bit).

The biggest problem is this. Training needs to happen. Many of these users are old school engineers and I don't think ever had any formal Windows and/or Office training. But they don't want to listen to my advise. And if anything goes wrong they know they can just blame it on me.

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Originally Posted by Khazad

That problem was not your fault at all, as it was mentioned before outlook pst files crap out at 2gb, it's his fauly for pushing the limit. What you could have done, however is created an archive pst file of all his archaic emails that he just has hanging around but doesn't really use anymore and moved most of his carp to that, and then copy a majorly reduced copy of the main pst file over. To go further with that you could burn the archived pst to a dvd for him to keep isn case he ever needs one of those messages.
That's the way I handle that situation anyway.

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Thats exactly what I tried to do. Except the PST blew up just after I attempted to move some emails into the new PST.

I hope Bill Gates burns in hell for creating this awful PST technology. It is the worst email file management system known to man.

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Originally Posted by NooNoo

...People think computers can bend to their will - true, but only so far and the ability to bend to a will is directly linked to the to the budget :D

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Yup. Those of us who actually "get it" understand this. Managers are a different animal though. They don't feel that they need to "get it". They just know that they can boss around the lowly IT tech until they get what they want. Or there are the ones who *think* they get it and keep trying to tell you how to do your job even though the things they say are wrong. Like one of my managers. He once set up a small lan at home and all of a sudden hes the resident computer expert and keeps telling me, "well why don't you just [fill in the blank]". And then no matter what I respond with, he thinks I don't know what I'm doing.

It's SUCH a thankless job.

Then document your recommendations and their refusals.

You'll need them for when they come hunting for you after the crash/data loss/corruption.


Then, explain to them the difference between the lesser amount having been spent on prevention (training on best practices) instead of the larger amount on repairs.


Put a dollar amount on it.

It will help them understand better.

Yeah. That would work. I've also been thinking of trying to explain to them how much money they are losing with all the downtime.