Fake Parts are Everywhere

Just a little more depressing news about the number of fake parts from China which have found there way into U.S. military hardware. Here's a highlight:

"Here’s a key excerpt from a SASC summary of the report:
The Committee’s report includes detailed descriptions of how counterfeits are flooding the supply chain, risking the performance and reliability of critical defense systems. In just one example described in the report, the U.S. Air Force says that a single electronic parts supplier, Hong Dark Electronic Trade of Shenzhen, China, supplied approximately 84,000 suspect counterfeit electronic parts into the DOD supply chain.
Parts from Hong Dark made it into Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance Systems (TCAS) intended for the C-5AMP, C-12, and the Global Hawk. In addition, parts from Hong Dark made it into assemblies intended for the P-3, the Special Operations Force A/MH-6M, and other military equipment, like the Excalibur (an extended range artillery projectile), the Navy Integrated Submarine Imaging System, and the Army Stryker Mobile Gun.
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Read more: http://defensetech.org/2012/05/22/fa...#ixzz1vcTmo2U7
Defense.org

With articles like this you'd think there would be an effort to increase making our own products in America. Oh look at that, jobs can be created, oh look at that with jobs the economy may pick up, oh look at that with a better economy we get out of debt. Holy crap I never took a class of economics but I have a better idea than Capitol Hill.

Seriously though, we should be making our own components especially if we're using them in our military hardware.

On a similar note, try to buy a tool made in the U.S. of A. Not easy, the only ones I found so far were Channellocks. ( Made here in PA! ) I make it a point to tell the store manager that I demand U.S. made tools, and will keep shopping elsewhere until I find them. Many times, people overheard me and added their two cents. Saving a few quarters on a wrench isn't as important to me as a few Americans having a job, making good quality tools with decent steel. Sorry for the rant!

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Originally Posted by Guts3d

Saving a few quarters on a wrench isn't as important to me as a few Americans having a job, making good quality tools with decent steel. Sorry for the rant!

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On another note a company I worked for tried producing some parts in China. The cost of some parts was lower than the cost of raw materials in US. Only issue was timing as most had to be produced on demand within 2-3 days.
When it comes to electronic components things aren't that simple. The process is very complex and requires a huge initial investment. Imagine having to build a mine, a foundry and a wood manufacturing plant because you want a custom shovel. Not exactly cost effective and you wouldn't be able to produce competitive parts to cover your investment.

Although I am not from the us i do agree with CeeBee, in as much as it isnt simple.
But i think both our countries have gone way way way too far in farming out the building of things.
It isnt like we cant do it. We just let the pendulum swing back so far that now we don't produce nearly anything.

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Originally Posted by Ferrit

Although I am not from the us i do agree with CeeBee, in as much as it isnt simple.
But i think both our countries have gone way way way too far in farming out the building of things.
It isnt like we cant do it. We just let the pendulum swing back so far that now we don't produce nearly anything.

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Couldn't have said it better Ferrit. It's also safe to say it's not impossible to make our own products and supply the materials and factories to do such. Sure it would take a long time to achieve but you have to start somewhere. A great little company here in the mid-west does something along those lines. Braum's they own not only the stores, they own their own lumber yards from what I understand so they can build their stores, they own their own dairy farms to make their products, and they own their own manufacturing facilities for making the dairy products such as milk, icecream, etc. So it's possible as long as the company has the desire to do it. But that's my ranting 2 cents.

It wasn't too may years ago we all heard about 300$ toilet seats and such and demanded better sourcing of goods.

OK.

NOW, we have USA government asshats sourcing strategic military NECESSITIES to the COMMIE CHINESE PINKO.....er, wait....ok....wait....ummmmhhhhh......OK ...I'm ok again.

We have government purchasers buying components for stuff to protect the USA (and Canadaistan BTW) from our potentially worst enemy.

IF you Ameritards can live with that, then start learning Mandarin!

(I always feel better after a good rant)

:)

Well, there are a couple of different things happening here. On the one hand, we've got too many "American" companies that can only focus on shareholder profits, and not jobs for Americans, so they send their manufacturing to China because it is really cheap, and then they bitch about the taxes they pay. or don't.

There are few large corporations that actively work to promote jobs in America; most of the job creation really comes from small business, and the failure rate is pretty high. That means a lot of the new jobs aren't permanent.

But that's a long, long way from buying cheap components for critical military systems without adequate safeguards. Wanna talk about the price of military equipment? Much of that cost is because the military can't set a requirement, live with it, and expect contractors to put up or shut up.

Another problem, is that there is always a milspec requirement for stuff that doesn't really need to be milspec. I had this conversation with a buddy who worked at Lockheed Austin in the procurement department, and I remember that he made the observation that a $300 milspec hammer wasn't any different from a $10 hammer at WalMart except it had to pass milspec testing.

Until just a few years ago, the 4 most commonly spoken languages in Texas were English, Spanish, German, and French. Today that's English, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Mandarin.

Am I learning Mandarin? 你打赌你的屁股

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Originally Posted by slgrieb

[...] and I remember that he made the observation that a $300 milspec hammer wasn't any different from a $10 hammer at WalMart except it had to pass milspec testing.

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Not only that, but purchasing for govt must go through approved vendors. So I may be able to produce a $9 hammer that passes all the testing, but the govt won't buy it from me. Instead it will go through the few vendors it works with, the vendor will buy the hammer from me for $9 and sell it for 299.99... There is 0 accountability on how money is spent, except that things must be purchased from the lowest priced vendor and must meet the specs.

have they got around to making fake boobies yet.. let me know when they do.. on second thought you would never know what hazardous materials they would use, after that baby food scandal.. I would probably be walking along on my merry way and they would just explode...

My MiL has had her hips replaced twice,

so I figure two more times and she's a spider or scorpion.

Judging by her daughter, scorpion wins.

:)

Proof That Military Chips From China Are Infected?

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2012/05/30/sm...#ixzz1wUUBvJHa
Defense.org

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Originally Posted by slgrieb

Proof That Military Chips From China Are Infected?

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Actually they aren't "military chips", they are chips with mil-specs (must withstand -50C to 125C operating temperature).
Also regarding that specific chip, it's not a backdoor, it's a feature that was forgotten in the final design from testing stage, it wasn't created by the Chinese but by the designers of the chip. It requires physical access to the device to be altered in any way.

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Originally Posted by CeeBee

Actually they aren't "military chips", they are chips with mil-specs (must withstand -50C to 125C operating temperature).
Also regarding that specific chip, it's not a backdoor, it's a feature that was forgotten in the final design from testing stage, it wasn't created by the Chinese but by the designers of the chip. It requires physical access to the device to be altered in any way.

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you beat me to it I was going to post a link stating the same

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Originally Posted by CeeBee

Actually they aren't "military chips", they are chips with mil-specs (must withstand -50C to 125C operating temperature).
Also regarding that specific chip, it's not a backdoor, it's a feature that was forgotten in the final design from testing stage, it wasn't created by the Chinese but by the designers of the chip. It requires physical access to the device to be altered in any way.

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Nevertheless, I think all the sudden attention is pretty interesting, and I'm sure more and more political motives will start to float to the surface soon. I wonder which Congressmen on the Armed Services Commissions might have chip fabs in the areas they represent. Maybe they just want one of their own.

Personally, I think the issue of bogus parts is a cause for serious concern, but implanted code not so much. Interestingly enough, the same sort of rumors have floated around for years about hardware designs we've acquired from the Israeli's. Far as I know that's just rumor and anecdote.

These are fake parts...:flames:
http://www.sparkfun.com/news/350

Ouch! Gotta be the absolute worst looking fakes I've seen yet. :grin:

So in theory, if China goes to war against the USA or vice versa, China would win since America is sabotaged with their counterfeit products.

The Buy America motto doesn't work very well anymore. People want cheap and unfortunately most American made products can't be made cheaper compared to what China can do. Now we know why so many manufacturing firms packed up and headed elsewhere.

Counterfeiting is such a huge problem in China for years and only growing worse. It's a problem for the Chinese people too. They are affected with their own counterfeiting problems.

http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=356=9=61

A few years ago, I saw a news documentary about China counterfeiting problems. They interviewed a Chinese man nicknamed the Wolf and his police team who crack down on fake manufacturing sites. He's a hero to the Chinese people. Alas it doesn't take long for another fake manufacturer to set up shop somewhere else.

I always thought it was pretty incredible how many Chinese companies had no problem at all selling contaminated food to their own people. Don't hear so much about that anymore; maybe the government finally hanged enough of those guys to get the point across.

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Originally Posted by slgrieb

I always thought it was pretty incredible how many Chinese companies had no problem at all selling contaminated food to their own people. Don't hear so much about that anymore; maybe the government finally hanged enough of those guys to get the point across.

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... Or maybe it was the Govt.'s idea in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slgrieb

I always thought it was pretty incredible how many Chinese companies had no problem at all selling contaminated food to their own people. Don't hear so much about that anymore; maybe the government finally hanged enough of those guys to get the point across.

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It wasn't hanging, it was the firing squad or lethal injection :devil: