Ghost 2003 And Vista Dual Boot (FYI)

I noticed that there are some posts regarding cloning Vista on here and on another forums but I wasn't able to find any information that really does tell me what should be done.

Cloning Vista for the most part is ok, but what happens when you run dual boot 2000 and Vista?

That's what I have been dealing with as repairing a Vista boot sector will only allow you to boot to Vista, not Windows 2000. Then you run Fixboot from Windows 2000 Boot CD, but now Vista is inaccessible.


This is just for informational purposes only, what you do from here is up to you. In other words use at your own risk.


I have also allowed Ghost to mark my drives though I think it's not necessary.


Here's what I found.


I have used Win98 machine for this at first and later on worked on Vista. Software I used was PhysTechSoft Disk Editor.

When restoring an image Norton Ghost overwrites 1 byte of the 1st sector on the hard disk (absolute sector 0 - actual sector 1);

Before;
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ctor00bvd1.jpg

After cloning;
http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?i...r00bnewhl3.jpg

(that's why you get "Found new hardware - Generic Volume" with XP or 2000 when Ghost is complete). So I changed it to what it was before cloning and haven't noticed anything wrong with my system.


Now the same thing was done with 2000 and Vista PC.

However, now I have to use Phystechsoft Editor from DOS Boot CDROM (which seems to work with SATA drives also).

Using the same drive, we have as expected modified sector;

(marked in red as modified)
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?i...llhexedbw4.jpg

Once I changed this both Vista and 2000 booted without finding new hardware.

Now I run this using the different drive but of exact capactiy and model of hard drive;

http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?i...wodiskspa9.jpg


Again modified the sector manually using Phystechsoft Editor.

Worked again, with both Windows 2000 and Vista, however finding new hard drive was innevitable.

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?i...vevistasu1.jpg


So the only thing remaining is to try it with different hard disk.

Well it worked also by modifying those 8 digits. I was able to boot to Windows 2000 right away but to Vista I couldn't. I ran repair on it and that fixed the Vista boot, but also Windows 2000 BOOTED after the repair (this is what gets screwed up if you do it in the old fashioned way - without editing those sectors and simply run quick repair with Vista).

The proper steps were as follows. Boot with Cd rom - select repair Vista. Bypass automatic fix and go to Startup Repair. Click on that and run it. Vista honestly won't even see Windows 2000 anymore. Reboot and off you go to Vista with found new hard drive baloon popups. Same thing will happen in Windows 2000 - found new hard drive. But again it worked.

This is my Windows 2000 - with Western Digital Drive now as opposed to Samsung (that you saw in pictures above presuming that they work)
http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ewdrivetz6.jpg

This is my Vista with the new drive;
http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ewdrivege2.jpg

Couple of things to note:

I haven't activated my copy yet. I don't want to actually use it on this PC as it doesn't support it yet. I don't know what happens when you do actually activate it.

When using a different drive - more sectors gets changed but don't try to match up. You will get blue screen.

One thing that possibly could work is to match the partition sizes when Cloning with Ghost (even though the disk is bigger - make them appear the same as with the old drive - by assigning the same disk size).

I think that there might be a better cloning program but what actually has to be done is alter the new boot BCD from within the Cloning program. This I think is simply done for protection, as it would be super easy to swap the drives or clone Vista across different machines.

Since I can't Edit the thread I found a way to overcome the "Repair" procedure, when using a different drive (it must be of larger capacity or the same). Some may not like this but the workaround is to simply Match the Partition sizes as selecting this during Ghost preparation to restore partiton.

Then use the hex editor to restore those 8 digits, and restart. Both Vista and 2000 will boot just fine.

Here's the digicam shot of found new hardware (though I could just use the printscreen but it was much easier this way);

http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?i...tafoundzb7.jpg

And here's the disk layout;

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ldmatchvg0.jpg

Well, certainly something to play with but be cautious.

That's a heck of a first post Armageddon

Can I ask what prompted you to post it?

Oh yah and welcome to windrivers!

Well thanks for comments. I looked arround the internet/forums etc. and haven't found any information regarding dual boot systems when Vista is used as a second OS. It just so happened to me that I wanted to resize my partitions using Ghost and test the clone operation.

This failed, however, I was able to successfully recover Vista and Windows 2000 so they work one at the time. But I still wanted to make them work at the same time. As an example here's one post where I found some information but couldn't find out if Dual Boot would work properly;

http://forums.windrivers.com/archive...p/t-77138.html



I also thought that this will give me a better idea on why does 2000 and XP find new hardware whenever you clone your backup back to the pc when exact same drive is used (just doesn't make sense).

Lastly I want to update more information - In this picture I am reffering to a different drive made to look like the old drive (Partition layout) with 36 GB of unallocated space, which Vista will continue to use properly presuming you format the parition from Vista (what if you format this partition which changes the mbr layout possibly and Vista doesn't boot anymore?). I also made it unallocated again, and formatted with 2000. Rebooted back to both OS-es without any problems.

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ldmatchvg0.jpg

1. Ghost technically speaking rewrites 4 bytes of mbr. Those would be by count I believe 441st, through 444th. Line will begin with 01B0.

2. Some people mention that using Partition to Partition would work also. Can't verify that with different drive though and I am not likely to use that option.

3. I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE THAT THIS WILL ALWAYS WORK!

4. Supposedly there are switches that can be used likely with Ghost corporate editions -fdsp and -fdsz. To my assumption the drives have to be exact to match the mbr as it will be prevented.

5. Lastly for dual boot installations, when you install Windows Vista from Command Prompt the partitions on the drive will get flipped in Vista, though in Windows 2000 or XP they will remain the same. Workaround is to install Vista from Windows 2000 itself. In other words log in to your Windows 2000, pop in Vista DVD and install it (I am not sure how to exactly say this - "from Windows 2000 Desktop" maybe?).



I guess that's it, I am tired of testing. Another reason that I have posted this is that I wanted to simply share this information.

I am glad you chose us and thanks for the info.. I think I will be reviewing this post in a week or two when I sort out my multiboot machine...

I actually ran into a problem that I am trying to sort out at this time.

Since FDISK no longer works with newer drives, I decied to use the Ranish Partition tool, to format my drives with it.

So I formatted one drive with 4 partitions and now have Windows 98, 2000, XP and Vista on it. This motherboard is very good and it has good support accross multiple OS-es (Even for DOS there is sound driver availability).

Annyways, my problem comes up from Ghost wanting to round up partitions sizes when cloning back the drive to where everything is installed.

For example, original size for partition one was the following;

Formatted as exact 12 Gb
Now in Ghost it shows as 117570 (let's suppose)

When cloning back this partition it Ghost wants to change it to;

115703
115608

So I have yet to figure out what are the partition sizes to be used when formatting drives. It seems to better like multiple of 16Gb or 32 GB (these were not changed).

So presumably the next step will be 8 + 8 + 16 + 32 (+unallocated)

and then I wanted to see if it will Clone back on the smaller hard disk (120GB - 80GB drive)

All right. Here's the latest update.

I added some more tools to my arsenal;

Ranish Partition Tool
MBRWizard (mbrwizd - for DOS)
Some switches in DOS.

I took another drive that luckily had the same capacity.

Oh and b.t.w. Ghost -fdsp and -szee switches can (sometimes must be used) with certain preconditions.

So, because of Ghost wanting to resize partitions I tested this with the drive of exact capacity. Even with -szee and -fdsp switches used I got different results in my master boot record. Vista wouldn't boot at all.

Then I got into thinkering and used Ranish Partition to size my partitions as they were originally. I restored my first three partitions and also a forth one but there was a problem with it. Later on I deleted it (Vista NTFS) and let the Ghost deal with it.

So once my partitions were absolutely the same (first three) I used Ghost Partition to Partition Tool to clone partition to partition for each. Then deleted the forth (FAT32 but it was wrong size) using Ranish and let the Ghost actually write a new size to it as NTFS.

Somehow I resulted with Extended Partition Overlap so I used Ranish again to delete the duplicate partition.

Finally using mbrwizd (MBR Wizard) I backed up my original mbr (I have removable drives so it was easy to swap them out) and then restored it to a new drive.

Checked with Ranish and voila - everything matches, no problems.
Checked with Phystechsoft Disk - everything maches in MBR.

Lastly I booted to each OS - everything worked fine at least for that part. Each OS has rebooted twice and vista three times so I think that worked.

So;

You may use -fdsp and -szee switches with some limitations
(won't work always)
Make sure partitions remain the same size no matter what hard disk is used (I think this must be same or larger).

As a general rule it might be the best to;

format partitions as they should be,
copy text file to each
Clone with Ghost to image file
Restore them back by sizing up the partitions to Ghost's liking once and for all.
Then install OS.
Then clone to image.

Annyways, it's a long story as it is. Conclusion is that Ghost 2003 is not compatible with Vista. New version of Ghost will again, likely have to modify the BCD boot information so it corresponds to mbr, and respective boot loaders on each partition, or just a single partition.

At least we have something to work with, however.







Oh and b.t.w. here's the interesting news;

Remember that cloning may not always work with different HAL. Well I tested this cloned drive on another system and while 2000 and XP wouldn't boot, to my surprise VISTA DID!!!. Of course it wanted me to activate it within three days, but I was surprised that just like Windows 98 it installed all the additional hardware and it worked just fine. This just blew me away.

Yep Vista has some totally wonderful features.... now if I can just get around to going through it to find them all!

Interesting facts. However, I wonder this:

When formatting a drive, most modern OS's assign the drive some sort of a ID (I just formatted a floppy to see what it called it - the Volume Serial Number) and it is 2 sets of 4 bytes long (in the form of abcd:wxyz, using hexadecimal values) - could this be what is being 'changed' by the Ghost 2003, as it is performing a byte by byte copy from the old system to the new, and could this be the reason why 2K / XP / Vista give 'new HW found' messages afterwards?

Other than that idea, I have to say, seeing as I haven't posted here in a *long* time, that was a *very* in depth analysis and troubleshooting you did there, Armageddon - Cheers!

Now to add your results to Vista Software Compatibility Wiki to let all know that Ghost 2003 can be made to work to copy / move Vista partitions....

Well hey thanks for comments. I feel very VISTA ready just about right now.

There is one more thing with all the Ghost testing.

Windows XP keeps most of the activation data tied to MAC address as it is the only device that provides more than one vote during boot.

Windows VISTA however, seems to care most about the hard drive. For example I changed hard disk and Video card before Ghost restore. I needed to reactivate it within three days after Cloning back to a different hard disk (again, a different video card is installed).

I put the old video card back and cloned again to different hard disk - booted fine without the need to reactivate.

I guess once you put computer together that's IT and no more changes. Luckily I planned out this system well and I don't inted to make any changes to it. The only thing that I regret is that NVIDIA 6200AX is not a very good video card but with 256 megs of RAM it does the job.

I also goofed up with VIA Velocity Gigabit, and had to add Realtek 8169 For Ghost operations, but so far IRQ's haven't shown any lockups, or goofy operations, - they are the least of trouble. Computer is solid as a rock (For those interested it is ASUS P4B266 and is not highly overclockable (don't listen to overclocking articles - it works but other parts of mainboard die; sound, ethernet, bla bla)), but it's a great mobo because it provides support for Several OS-es but that's another story as I have yet to test the sound in DOS; it does have the driver though :) ).

I recently purchased a Gateway M6817 with Windows Vista Home Premium.


On my Desktop I have a internal HD that runs the following: 95, 98se, ME, 2000, and
XP.


On that HD I used the boot.ini file to multi boot

NOW THE QUESTION:

How do I Boot into my other OS sytems (95, 98se, ME, 2000, and XP) using my new Laptop
Pre-loaded with Windows Vista Premium?

I especially need windows 2000 access. Every time I try to install it on my laptop
it shows the blue screen: "No Hard Drive Installed"

My HD is a WD SATA connected NOT to the motherboard but via a pci card (I think)
attached to the motherboard. With my WD Lifeguard utility disk, it reads as a BIOS
HD attached via an "unknown controller".

What do I do. It won't even read my already installed windows 2000 (or anyother OS)
that I attach via USB Enclosure device.

What do I DO?........HELP ANYONE.....Please give simple steps as I am a novice.

I noticed one poster was even running 95,98,Me,2000,XP AND Vista on the SAME SATA DRIVE. I want to do this with my notebook as I am already doing it with my desktop.

When I use nlite to slipstream drivers into a Windows 2000 CD, I can install it BUT it runs like it's in Safe-Mode. Windows XP has no sound.

What are the stepby steps for using Ghost to transfer the partitions to the new SATA HD? Will it boot after that?


Thanks:wave:

Welcome to Windrivers Mr Mann

Usually in a multi-boot situation, you load the oldest OS first and the newest creates a boot loader to give you a choice of which OS to load.

You have a SATA drive which means an extra step when loading an OS. You need the SATA drivers installed. Now a brand new notebook is not likely to provide drivers for any other OSes other than XP and Vista.. but let's see. What notebook is this?