Capitalist dogs or smoke screen?
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Capitalist dogs or smoke screen?

  1. #1
    Registered User ßracius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,259

    Post Capitalist dogs or smoke screen?

    <a href="http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/kstrassel/?id=95001590" target="_blank">http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/kstrassel/?id=95001590</a>

    SCENE & HEARD

    Activist Inc.
    Professional agitators can't claim to be a "grassroots" movement anymore.

    BY KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL
    Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:01 a.m. EST

    It seems every time you read a story about a domestic conflict--whether it's drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, free trade clashes, or tobacco litigation--two adjectives always describe the opponents. On one side are the "grassroots" organizations--disorganized, under-funded, struggling folk willing to live hand-to-mouth in the name of their noble goal. On the other are "powerful" corporate and political interests--fat-cats with loads of money, contacts and discipline, willing to use any tactic to get their way.

    David-and-Goliath descriptions add the touch of drama, which is no doubt why journalists continue with the "grassroots-powerful" routine. Yet even as they do, the rest of America is cottoning on to the fact that such descriptions are not only outdated--they're completely backward. These days, most "grassroots" groups are far better moneyed, networked and operated than many corporations and political lobbies. And they've become far more ruthless in accomplishing their goals.

    Up to now, it's been pretty difficult to clearly illustrate their strength. Companies--especially "powerful" public ones--are required to keep their operations transparent and regularly make public their financial records. Activist groups, even though most receive non-profit status and must file with the IRS, have been reluctant to let anyone see their records. But now, thanks to a new Web site called ActivistCash.com, the average U.S. citizen can finally get the lowdown on the financial and organizational operations of many major activist groups in the country.

    ActivistCash.com, unveiled yesterday, is run by the Guest Choice Network, an organization of 30,000 restaurant and tavern operators. The Guest Choice Network has become a front line defense against today's nanny culture. Or, as its first Web site--nannyculture.com--puts it: "Unofficially we include anybody who stands up against the growing fraternity of food cops, health care enforcers, vegetarian activists and meddling bureaucrats who 'know what's best for you.' " The site offers, among other things, information on junk science and food scares.

    Now, however, the group has gone further. Over the past year it has used freedom of information laws to get the IRS documents of the country's leading activist groups--more than 100,000 pages of information the activist hope Americans won't see. "What we uncovered is an intricate, organized, well-funded web of what you might call the "'new left,' " says John Doyle, the group's communications director. "It allows a person to finally link the environmental activists with the animal rights activists with the anti-corporate activists, and see that they all operate together in the anti-choice arena."

    All of the information listed is an eye-opener, but a couple of things stick out. The first is the degree to which the top management of most of these organizations are engaged in a lovefest. ActivistCash.com not only provides financial records, but the names of trustees, directors and management. Click on these names, and you are transported to the many other organizations the activist in question is involved with.
    A sample? According to ActivistCash.com, Frances Beinecke is the executive director of the Natural Resources Defense Council, sits on the board of the World Resources Institute and is co-founder of the New York League of Conservation Voters; she also held positions at the Wilderness Foundation and the Adirondack Council. SeaWeb, originally a "project" of the NRDC, was spun off, but still has ties to Ms. Beinecke's group. And Ms. Beinecke's NRDC shares a public relations company, Fenton Communications, with both Greenpeace and the Center for Science in the Public Interest.

    Perhaps the other major revelation of ActivistCash.com is the link between established charitable foundations and controversial activist groups. Many of the country's larger and more prestigious foundations--from the Pew Charitable Trusts, to the Packard Foundation--have images of high-minded organizations that promote "worthy" projects in culture and education. As ActivistCash.com shows, though, many are giving millions to the more extreme activist organizations, not to mention promoting such views themselves.

    "The people who are in charge of the giving at Pew and Ford know exactly what they are trying to accomplish," says Mr. Doyle. "But we're not sure a lot of companies and suppliers realize how out of tune these groups' world view is with their own."

    Beyond these wide trends, though, the site offers a gold mine of other nuggets. To offer just a few:

    • How's this for a link? On one hand we have People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. PETA's president is Ingrid Newkirk, a woman known for comments such as: "Six million Jews died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses." PETA has come under criticism for its ad campaigns, which, in one instance, went so far as to gloat over Rudy Giuliani's prostate cancer (not that this has stopped nearly a dozen "established" foundations from giving PETA large grants). The group's extreme views--which include no animal experiments, no milking of cows and no meat-eating--are widely known and largely reviled.

    One the other hand we have the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, run by Neal Barnard. Its Web site describes itself as a "nonprofit" supported by "5,000 physicians" and it puts out a quarterly magazine called "Good Medicine." Its site is full of dietary recommendations as well as the latest "health" news. For example: "Studies show high intakes of dairy products increase prostate cancer," "School lunches fail to make the grade, say doctors: too much fat, meat, chicken, cheese." Any average person landing on the PCRM site might well think it a responsible health industry group.

    Now take a closer look at both groups. According to ActivistCash.com, PCRM's Mr. Barnard and PETA's Ms. Newkirk have something in common: They are the co-directors of a third group, the multimillion-dollar Foundation to Support Animal Protection. In 1999, Ms. Newkirk's PETA gave this third group nearly $1 million; FSAP in turn gave Mr. Barnard's PCRM as much as $432,000. Take a look at PCRM's "health" prescriptions again and it's clear they are doctored up PETA rhetoric: Every one suggests that eating animal or dairy products is bad for you.

    • According to the site, the Ben & Jerry's Foundation of ice cream fame, has given $10,000 to Mothers for Natural Law--a group radically opposed to anything but organic food, and linked to the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (leader of the Transcendental Meditation movement). B&J also gave $100,000 to the Ruckus Society, a group that trains anticorporate radicals to rappel down buildings and hang themselves from billboards, who were among the primary movers and shakers at the Seattle World Trade Organization riots.

    • The Action on Smoking and Health (ASH, for short) is one of the nation's largest anti-smoking organizations. On the first page of its Web site, it says: "ASH is entirely supported by tax-deductible contributions from people like you . . ." But according to ActivistCash.com, the F.M. Kirby Foundation has contributed $440,000 to ASH in recent years.

    Luckily, people other than industry groups are also beginning to catch on to these "grassroots" organizations. Earlier this year, two-time Pulitzer Prize winner Tom Knudsen, a reporter for the Sacramento Bee, wrote a series of articles about the new big business face of the environmental movement.
    Mr. Knudsen describes the reaction of a visitor the first time he stepped into the headquarters of the Wilderness Society: "It was like a giant corporation. Floor after floor after floor, just like Exxon or AT&T." He details the million-dollar fundraisers, the six-figure salaries, and the accounting shenanigans. But he also describes where all the money goes: most of it to lobbying, lawsuits and . . . more fund-raising.

    And so the next time Americans get a flyer or a phone-call asking for a donation, they'd do well to spend a few minutes on ActivistCash.com.

    Ms. Strassel is an assistant features editor of The Wall Street Journal's editorial page. Her column appears on alternate Thursdays.
    Sofa King Retarded

  2. #2
    Registered User Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN - United States
    Posts
    327

    Post

    wow...that alot of reading...long post
    Raven

    Quote:
    --------
    "Dont whiz on the electric fence"
    - Ren & Stimpy.

  3. #3
    Registered User Wayward Clam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    the depths of Lake Superior
    Posts
    3,778

    Post

    Bracius, I have come to the conclusion that you and I are not ever going to be friends...

    *sigh*
    Flash! Don't heckle the supervillain!

  4. #4
    Registered User ßracius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,259

    Post

    Oh, by the way check out PETA! "Disgustingly ignorant" is how they should be classified!
    Sofa King Retarded

  5. #5
    Registered User ßracius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,259

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by Wayward Clam:
    <strong>Bracius, I have come to the conclusion that you and I are not ever going to be friends...

    *sigh*</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Uh...ok. Whatever floats your boat
    Sofa King Retarded

  6. #6
    Registered User ßracius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,259

    Post

    Waaaaaaaiiiit, Is that in reference to me having my own opinion?
    Sofa King Retarded

  7. #7
    Registered User Wayward Clam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    the depths of Lake Superior
    Posts
    3,778

    Post

    Oh dear God.

    All right, here's what NEEDS to be said.

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong><a href="http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/kstrassel/?id=95001590" target="_blank">http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/kstrassel/?id=95001590</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

    First off, there are people on the planet who don't consider the Wall Street Journal an effective resource in deciding how our country should be run.

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>Activist Inc.
    Professional agitators can't claim to be a "grassroots" movement anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Firstly, the vast majority of "agitators" are not professional, they are volunteer. And speaking as a volunteer it is HARD to get people to volunteer. They don't do it for the fun of it. They do it because they see a need and believe in the cause. If someone was going to punch your best friend, you would step in and stop them, because you believe in the cause.

    There are a certain bunch of idiots on the left, like most of PETA, who are ruining the party for everybody else. Please don't HELP them destroy the good work that everybody else is trying to do.

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>On one side are the "grassroots" organizations--disorganized, under-funded, struggling folk willing to live hand-to-mouth in the name of their noble goal. On the other are "powerful" corporate and political interests--fat-cats with loads of money, contacts and discipline, willing to use any tactic to get their way.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    This is simply true, I am afraid. There are huge networks of well funded people who claim to be leftist, but in reality, they are not. They are something called to insiders "astroturf movements", or fake grassroots organizations. They are created by corporations and interests to muddy the political waters and mess up their opponents. In a large part they have succeeded in derailing and destroying much of the good organizations that oppose corporate evil, and they leave alone and actually foster the organizations that make the political left look bad.

    Can you imagine if the political leftists ignored the KKK and instead put all the same effort and resources into subtly destroying and corrupting the NRA? Well nobody would tolerate the KKK at all, so they'd be ahead overall, then, wouldn't they?

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>These days, most "grassroots" groups are far better moneyed, networked and operated than many corporations and political lobbies. And they've become far more ruthless in accomplishing their goals.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I work for a food bank. We hate Mike Harris, premier of Ontario, for destroying welfare, health care, education, and privatizing everything in sight. There are many of us who would gladly strangle him given the chance. But I can't say that we have ever been moneyed, networked, and better operated or more ruthless than any corporation.

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>Activist groups, even though most receive non-profit status and must file with the IRS, have been reluctant to let anyone see their records.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Do you have any idea how much information you HAVE to give over to get non-profit status? I'm in Canada, so things may be different here, but let me tell you there are NO secrets from the government in any of the groups I have been part of.

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>But now, thanks to...ActivistCash.com, the average U.S. citizen can finally get the lowdown on the financial and organizational operations of many major activist groups in the country... ActivistCash.com... is run by the Guest Choice Network, an organization of 30,000 restaurant and tavern operators... Or, as its first Web site--nannyculture.com--puts it: "Unofficially we include anybody who stands up against the growing fraternity of food cops, health care enforcers, vegetarian activists and meddling bureaucrats who 'know what's best for you.' "</strong><hr></blockquote>

    So in other words, there is no screening of applicants, any yahoo who hates a leftist group is welcome.

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong> The site offers, among other things, information on junk science and food scares.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I'm gonna assume it includes no information on junk science from the other side, such as the faked up health reports the tobacco industry has generated over the last few decades...

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>more than 100,000 pages of information the activist hope Americans won't see.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Speaking as Treasurer of the Board of Directors ofthe Lakehead Coalition Food Bank, I am happy to have any of you come up here and look at the books any time you want.

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>"What we uncovered is an intricate, organized, well-funded web of what you might call the "'new left,' " says John Doyle, the group's communications director.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Wow... I never knew CONSERVATIVES could be paranoid too...

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong> "It allows a person to finally link the environmental activists with the animal rights activists with the anti-corporate activists, and see that they all operate together in the anti-choice arena."</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Of course they do! McDonalds operates in synergy with its business partners, doesn't it? This is supposed to be news?

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>The first is the degree to which the top management of most of these organizations are engaged in a lovefest... Click on these names, and you are transported to the many other organizations the activist in question is involved with.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Okay, where's the sin here? People who support one cause are likely to support another. You are probably a member of another tech board, aren't you? I am on five of them myself!

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>Perhaps the other major revelation of ActivistCash.com is the link between established charitable foundations and controversial activist groups.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I am part of the TLC Food Bank, a non-political organization. I am also part of T-CAP, an organization for the poor that is very political in nature. They operate out of the same office and include 90% of the same staff. They have the same mission but different methodologies. Is the financial bureaucracy a nightmare to wade through? You bet it is--but T-CAP never gets any money for political things--all of the nonprofit money goes to TLC. (Which is preposterous anyways, but that is what the government forces us to do.)

    By the way, I'm gonna skip PETA as nobody believes they are actually activists anymore.

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>• According to the site, the Ben & Jerry's Foundation of ice cream fame, has given $10,000 to Mothers for Natural Law--a group radically opposed to anything but organic food, and linked to the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (leader of the Transcendental Meditation movement).</strong><hr></blockquote>

    What the hell is wrong with organic food? You can have organic ice cream, I have myself, it is good! If Ben & Jerry's is upset about it, they should be more careful who they donate to. And what exactly does "linked to" mean? OJ Simpson is "linked to" Judge Ito as well, but does that mean one controls the other?

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong> B&J also gave $100,000 to the Ruckus Society, a group that trains anticorporate radicals to rappel down buildings and hang themselves from billboards, who were among the primary movers and shakers at the Seattle World Trade Organization riots.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Ah the WTO riots. The ones where unidentified squads of people in black helmets and T-shirts with "Police" spray painted on them invaded a school full of sleeping people, beat them all within an inch of their lives, broke computers and desks and glass, broke noses and arms and legs, and who all disappeared mysteriously afterwards and remain still unexplained to this day despite being on videotape...

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong> ...a series of articles about the new big business face of the environmental movement.
    Mr. Knudsen describes the reaction of a visitor the first time he stepped into the headquarters of the Wilderness Society: "It was like a giant corporation. Floor after floor after floor, just like Exxon or AT&T." He details the million-dollar fundraisers, the six-figure salaries, and the accounting shenanigans. But he also describes where all the money goes: most of it to lobbying, lawsuits and . . . more fund-raising.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Ah yes. What else would you expect an astroturf movement to look like?

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>And so the next time Americans get a flyer or a phone-call asking for a donation, they'd do well to spend a few minutes on ActivistCash.com. Ms. Strassel is an assistant features editor of The Wall Street Journal's editorial page. Her column appears on alternate Thursdays.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Yeah... let's all look to Corporate America to identify the best people to police Corporate America... it worked so well with Microsoft...

    Bracius... I beg of you... PLEASE stop posting things like this.
    Flash! Don't heckle the supervillain!

  8. #8
    Registered User Wayward Clam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    the depths of Lake Superior
    Posts
    3,778

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>Waaaaaaaiiiit, Is that in reference to me having my own opinion?</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I never said you aren't allowed to have an opinion. The trouble is, you are not an insider, and you are trying to come across as one. It is like the people who come into a store and start explaining why an eMachine is better than a clone or a Dell or an IBM. I'm sure they mean well and perhaps according to their own experience what they are saying is true... the eMachine certainly looks cheaper and looks like it has the same features!!! The trouble is, while they may be a perfectly intelligent person with good intentions, they just don't know the story behind the scenes.

    I am sorry if this comes across as arrogant. I'm not trying to sound like I am some kind of political genius. I'm not... however, my parents ARE. They DO know what goes on behind the scenes, and they are more than happy to tell me and anybody else who will listen.

    When you post stuff against activism in general, you are helping the cause of the people my parents have sworn to fight. People who are evil. And it's a bad kind of evil, because unlike bin Laden, they don't want to just destroy and kill, they want to enslave and corrupt and rape, and to leave you alive so you can be enslaved and corrupted and raped again.
    Flash! Don't heckle the supervillain!

  9. #9
    Registered User ßracius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,259

    Post

    If it makes you feel better then I will only post non-discriminate response that have no intelligent content as not to offend anybody here. Such as: Did you hear about the two guys who walked into a bar, third one ducked.

    The floor is your clammy, you lead the information war I am tired this crap that people get here.
    Sofa King Retarded

  10. #10
    Registered User ßracius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,259

    Post

    Aw screw it, I had a change of heart. Look at the post topic Clambo, proper in English suggest a question. Does it not? The after post....Well we both agree that PETA sucks. I don't even think it suggest my personal views. I found it and thought to myself: "Hmmmm, the guys (windriver group) would love to see this and tear it up", Hot damn was I wrong. Never in a million years think that I would get a personal attack on this.
    Sofa King Retarded

  11. #11
    Registered User Wayward Clam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    the depths of Lake Superior
    Posts
    3,778

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by Bracius:
    <strong>Look at the post topic Clambo, proper in English suggest a question. Does it not? </strong><hr></blockquote>


    Oh my goodness... you are absolutely right...

    I have been a total moron here.

    I apologize to you, Bracius. After all the previous stuff about PETA I went into this post with my mind already made up about what you wanted to say and who you were.

    I don't know what to say, except I'm sorry...

    hmmm

    ever seen a Clam with egg on his face before?
    Flash! Don't heckle the supervillain!

  12. #12
    Registered User ßracius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,259

    Post

    Apology accepted, but I do want to make sure that you claim is not unfounded. If I did speak they way you are talking about then I understand and apologize for giving the misrepresentation. How ever my stand against NAAFA still stands.

    <a href="http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum3/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=003192&p=6" target="_blank">http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum3/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=0031 92&p=6</a>

    Well this is the only PETA post I can find. Does anybody else, by some weird chance, have a link to the first PETA post. I want so see what I said
    Sofa King Retarded

  13. #13
    Registered User Wayward Clam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    the depths of Lake Superior
    Posts
    3,778

    Post

    Well I'm glad you accept my apology--thank you. I reread it myself and I don't think it sounded sincere enough, but I did mean it.

    It's just with all this PETA and porkbeast stuff lately I kinda started to tune out the actual words that were being said and just assumed it was all snowballing...

    my bad.

    And you are right as always, there certainly ARE freaks out there masquerading as people with legitimate concerns.
    Flash! Don't heckle the supervillain!

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    696

    Post

    Wow. You guys are awesome.

    [waves hands frantically, looking all around]

    HELLLLLLLLOOOOOOOO!!!!! Everybodeeeeeeee!!! Look over here, wouldya?? It's two open-minded people with differing views and yet a willingness to hear the other side!! Not only that, but it's people who know how to apologize!! People who know how to admit when they've made a mistake!!!! People who are not too arrogant to do so! Helllllooooooo!!!!!!!

    [points frantically at Bracius and Clam]

    <font size = "5">This is how intelligent people act in a situation like this.</font>

    Could we bronze this post?

    Oh, sorry...getting a little overexcited, I guess... [fans herself]

  15. #15
    Adm¡nistrator JungleMan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    2,463

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by Renée:
    <strong>Oh, sorry...getting a little overexcited, I guess... [fans herself]</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Stick your head in my computer...there are enough fans in there (enough to drive me nuts :eek


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •