Extra Extra read all about it...Cleetus takes the fall!

[iceman]

Today at 1pm Cleetus 'teh Cleet' went down in flames as a Ya_Know laid down the smack. The defeat heard round the world as the 'Redneck Wannbe' hit the mat with such force that Donald Trump's hair briefly was out of place....

[Cleetus]

Today at 1pm Cleetus 'teh Cleet' went down in flames as a Ya_Know laid down the smack. The defeat heard round the world as the 'Redneck Wannbe' hit the mat with such force that Donald Trump's hair briefly was out of place....

Because he called me a zero?

Get real, he has never one an arguement with me evar, he just decides he wins before he ever starts, and now simpletons like yourself get a hardon because he called me a zero

[Cleetus]

And remember you are sticking up for a guy who wears the dress in his family.

I mean really ya_know, are you even allowed to wear pants inside your wifes house?

[Tekboy]

And remember you are sticking up for a guy who wears the dress in his family.

I mean really ya_know, are you even allowed to wear pants inside your wifes house?

Oooooh, Cleetus casts "Emasculate!"

[Ya_know]

And remember you are sticking up for a guy who wears the dress in his family.

I mean really ya_know, are you even allowed to wear pants inside your wifes house?

I have never worn a dress. I've worn salad dressing before, but that's a different storry all together.

Ok Cleetus, Shall we have a go? I can't argue religion, because I don't have any, I mostly listen or tune out. My topic, Gay's in the military. You want to argue, give you're boot straps a tug, cause this like every other topic, you will lose! How about this for a twist, we argue our opposites. I argue for, you argue against? Can you handle that?

[Cleetus]

Honestly, while I feel that they could perform valiantly along with females as well, the pc world should not interfere with the reality that these men are working together to keep each other alive. 100% trust is need in the man next to you, I don't think you can get that with women or gay men in the front combat lines. Distaste of the gay man, or the desire to prove yourself to the woman, either way will detract from the effectiveness of the group as a whole in a situation where trust and the ability to act is needed to be able to walk out alive.

[Ya_know]

Honestly, while I feel that they could perform valiantly along with females as well, the pc world should not interfere with the reality that these men are working together to keep each other alive. 100% trust is need in the man next to you, I don't think you can get that with women or gay men in the front combat lines. Distaste of the gay man, or the desire to prove yourself to the woman, either way will detract from the effectiveness of the group as a whole in a situation where trust and the ability to act is needed to be able to walk out alive.

There are women in combat now. Not in front line direct fighting, but they work in hostile support environments that require them to stand watch, engage enemy combatants, and get wounded. Men and women fighting side by side, and it's already proving itself.

You claim that moral will be down, or uncontrolled with the introduction of homosexuals, but military branches are designed by the simple concept of immediate response to orders. If orders are given to cohabitate and function with homosexuals, and the orders will be followed as would any other orders that are directed from the highest command, there should be no problem. As far as moral being low, it’s all undereducated bias causing the problems. Sensitivity training has been going on for years to educate against inappropriate sexual harassment; homosexual understanding can be trained as well.

That’s just a start, let’s talk about the specific logistics of living quarters next…

[Cleetus]

There are women in combat now. Not in front line direct fighting, but they work in hostile support environments that require them to stand watch, engage enemy combatants, and get wounded. Men and women fighting side by side, and it's already proving itself.

You claim that moral will be down, or uncontrolled with the introduction of homosexuals, but military branches are designed by the simple concept of immediate response to orders. If orders are given to cohabitate and function with homosexuals, and the orders will be followed as would any other orders that are directed from the highest command, there should be no problem. As far as moral being low, it’s all undereducated bias causing the problems. Sensitivity training has been going on for years to educate against inappropriate sexual harassment; homosexual understanding can be trained as well.

That’s just a start, let’s talk about the specific logistics of living quarters next…

Honestly, I don't want to, I don't see a full problem with it, as it is just the same arguements as was used against the blacks or women and they have all been proven wrong.

Sounds to me like if you can make it work in the military, it can work anywhere and you are just starting to understand the problems with your reasoning throught the years and are finding a way where you can show how you are becoming a more understanding person without losing any face.

[Ya_know]

Honestly, I don't want to, I don't see a full problem with it, as it is just the same arguements as was used against the blacks or women and they have all been proven wrong.

Sounds to me like if you can make it work in the military, it can work anywhere and you are just starting to understand the problems with your reasoning throught the years and are finding a way where you can show how you are becoming a more understanding person without losing any face.

Damn you give up quick. You are such a pu$$y!!! Consider this another "smack down" baby, you lose again!

[iceman]

And Cleetus casts " Confusion ".

[Cleetus]

Damn you give up quick. You are such a pu$$y!!! Consider this another "smack down" baby, you lose again!

Dude, how can one honestly debate on the side of a topic with more holes then a Micheal Moore movie?

I was wincing in pain when I wrote the first thing, as it is just about the only thing that makes any sense in the senseless argument.

You throw me on a losing side of a tired, worthless debate and proclaim yourself the winner, when in fact you are just proving that your debate of the past were all wrong and in fact I had some truth in what I was saying???

[Ya_know]

Dude, how can one honestly debate on the side of a topic with more holes then a Micheal Moore movie?

I was wincing in pain when I wrote the first thing, as it is just about the only thing that makes any sense in the senseless argument.

You throw me on a losing side of a tired, worthless debate and proclaim yourself the winner, when in fact you are just proving that your debate of the past were all wrong and in fact I had some truth in what I was saying???

Not true at all. In fact it proves that I can openly argue both sides, with a full and credited argument. I don't need an emotional attachment to the argument to win, and you can’t! That's what this proves!

What, you want to reverse roles and have me kick your a$$ on both sides??? Hell, I handed you billeting, that's the easiest argument against gay's in the military, HANDS DOWN. Because it's not about giving a patriotic American the chance to serve his country regardless of his sexual preference, but where all these people are supposed to sleep, shower, and otherwise spend 24-7 with each other. You can’t bunk a hetero with a homo. You just can’t

[Cleetus]

Not true at all. In fact it proves that I can openly argue both sides, with a full and credited argument. I don't need an emotional attachment to the argument to win, and you can’t! That's what this proves!

What, you want to reverse roles and have me kick your a$$ on both sides??? Hell, I handed you billeting, that's the easiest argument against gay's in the military, HANDS DOWN. Because it's not about giving a patriotic American the chance to serve his country regardless of his sexual preference, but where all these people are supposed to sleep, shower, and otherwise spend 24-7 with each other. You can’t bunk a hetero with a homo. You just can’t

They thought the same with blacks...

Dude, I sat there and thought about it, I couldn't find any arguement that I didn't instantly come up with a retort against. I even started with my arguements for having gays and looked to your side. The only halfway decent one I could come up with I threw up there, and it is a bull**** one itself.

Living arrangements?

Easy, you have several options. You can go with segregation like with women, making a third sexual orientation. Or, you say no ****ing in the barracks or you are out, if someone ****s in the mens barracks, you kick them out. Back to your orders arguement. Or even full out segregation like we had with the blacks.

Gays have been in the military, you probably served with several yourself and never knew. This isn't like black or white, you won't tell a gay guy unless he tells you or you walk in.

Heck, you can't use the same arguements for keeping women out, as gay men are just as strong and able as straight men. So that arguement is right out.

So you are only left with the sexual aspect of the person, something that if it isn't genetic, then they should have the same restrictions as if a straight couple formed in the military. Now, if you are saying that they are genetically different and that is your basis for keeping them out, then you are opening up lawsuit after lawsuit and walss being broken down all over by openly acknowledging that it is no longer a choice.

At the end of the day, all you have left is the idea of trust, can you sit back and trust that they guy/girl next to you will do there job and have your back and will do their job so that you both get out alive. The problem there is that it is a matter of prejudice that has to be tackled and taken out by those in command, forcing all the soldiers to simply follow orders. Let the person in and let them show what they can do, regardless of race, sex or desire for anal play.

[iceman]

Not true at all. In fact it proves that I can openly argue both sides, with a full and credited argument. I don't need an emotional attachment to the argument to win, and you can’t! That's what this proves!

What, you want to reverse roles and have me kick your a$$ on both sides??? Hell, I handed you billeting, that's the easiest argument against gay's in the military, HANDS DOWN. Because it's not about giving a patriotic American the chance to serve his country regardless of his sexual preference, but where all these people are supposed to sleep, shower, and otherwise spend 24-7 with each other. You can’t bunk a hetero with a homo. You just can’t

And Cleet knows all to well why.

[Ya_know]

Finally, I knew you had it in you, I just needed to tickle you enough.

Ordering a man not to have sex in the barracks isn’t a cut and dry order. Put this in perspective, if you were to room a man and a women together, do you really think she’s going to feel comfortable with him, and expect him to respect her wishes behind close doors? You can’t, and congress won’t hear of it. Same thing will apply for homosexual billeting.

You speak of billeting as though it's something we can afford to accommodate. Every barracks on the planet is over populated. When you add Women to the mix in itself puts more strain on availability for those rooms. Now you want to segregate all the gays, sorry if you put the gay man with the gay man, that’s like putting the hetero man with the hetero women. This will never pass one congressional hearing on the matter either. So in essence, we now have to create individual rooms for homo’s, which constitutes favoritism, as usually only those with seniority in the ranks room by themselves. So now you have to accommodate ALL military personnel with their own rooms, which consequently takes away from the brotherhood, camaraderie and teamwork which has delivered the backbone of the military branches (directly impacts moral, although I bet they will be thankful for their own rooms). The bottom line, you just doubled the defense budget for the next 10 years to accommodate new land and construction, plus the upkeep of those buildings will be a residual cost surpassing those 10 years.

Now, to Boot camp and squad bay living. There are still many units that live in squad bays. Boot camp will never be the same if you have admitted homosexuals in the ranks, now we have a problem with training, because we can’t segregate the gays here. A very large portion of the training involves the squad bay, and 5 minute showers, or head calls that last 60 seconds…let me tell you, the comfort level will be completely compromised if you add homosexuals to that environment. Anyone that ever went to boot camp has this perspective, you do not. Nothing against you, you simply can’t fathom how critical this problem becomes in that environment. It just can’t be managed!

There, that’s the argument I handed you, and you were too much of a pu$$y to take it…