install xtra ram onto hp pavilion zv5000

[NooNoo]

Half this thread should of been moved to a different discussion as 3/4 of the posts are more confusing to the poster that asked for an answer to.!!

Only because you insist on using misleading terminology. This would have been over and done with if you accepted you have posted misleading information. But no, you have to have the last word... and when you cannot refute the truth you just start being rude to people instead.

You are the one that was confusing the poster. Anyone who reads this thread and reads the links that Platypus, I and others have put up for your benefit, will at least have the opportunity to learn about the misleading terms often spouted by you in this topic.

[NooNoo]

OMG, people use the term CPU all the time to mean the box in which the motherboard and processor is contained. Does that make the use of the term correct?

Marketing people for the most part do not use terms correctly and some deliberately mis-use them in order to ensure people think they are getting one thing, when they are actually getting another. Whitepapers are not technical papers. They are marketing aids.

Continuing to misuse the terminology just serves to confuse. In the UK, BT Broadband have a box they call a BT Home Hub. In it there is a router, a switch and a wireless access point and a wireless voip phone but no hub there at all. They justify the use of this term to mean the a "central point" not a hub in networking terms.

It confuses people, they don't want to pay for a hub from BT, they order what they think is a hub (which is a switch since hubs haven't been made for 3 or 4 years). They install said hub, and then call me out. I have to gently tell them about the minefield of terms put together by a very clever marketing guy who seems to get points on how many technical terms he can use in the copy for the product.

I don't care who made up this misnomer. Continuing to propogate the term of dual channel memory just furthers the confusion.

[NooNoo]

You just proved you don't read the information people post.

in this post I clearly state that the zv5000 is a series of laptops. I also clearly state that the series encompasses both AMD and Intel processors of various types. Given the breadth of options, you cannot say what type of ram is every zv5000 series laptop.

None of these models incorporate a dual channel memory controller. So buying a single SODIMM of DDR SDRAM and fitting it in the user accessible socket will be fine. This I have already stated on page 1. What frequency of RAM he buys depends on the processor... as previously stated.

Now how many more times would you like the same information iterated?

[NooNoo]

and BTY any Intel P4 2gb+/AMD 64 2gb+ processors support Dual Channel Technology as both type procesors used by that model lappy's FSB's are over a minimum 533mhz

Bwahahahahahahah
It's not the front side bus speed of the processor which determines whether a notebook or desktop has dual channel architecture.

If the lappie has an Intel processor which has a 128bit interface AND IF the motherboard has dual memory controllers, then dual channel has been implemented on the motherboard.

On an AMD, the FIC AU13 with the nForce2 chipset was the first domestic (non server) board to support dual channel Athlon XP processor which was in the socket A package. This processor ran at 400mhz. So where is your claim that a processor only need to run faster than 533mhz now?

Do your freakin homework OMG. I feel really sorry for your customers.

Oh and I don't see anywhere at HP which claims the zv5000 laptops are fitted with dual channel architecture.

[NooNoo]

I have NEVER stated a recommended speed of the RAM, I have said several times that the speed of the ram needed is dependent on which processor he actually has. I have also said that if he installs a higher speed ram in the user socket than is in the socket buried in the laptop, it will run at the speed of the ram inside the laptop.

Whatever I build I ensure the ram speed and type is appropriate to the processor and to the motherboard. All components are checked for compatibility with each other and the intended use of the machine before acquiring them.

The term is DOUBLE data rate.... and of course you now know that dual channel memory refers to the architecture NOT TO THE STICKS OF RAM.

[CCT]

DDR ram used on a motherboard that supports DDR ram BUT doesn't use Dual Channel memory controllers is, simply, DDR ram. It works as Single Channel Double Data Rate ram.

BUT, noone calls it Single Channel DDR ram.

Thus, maintaining the position that all DDR ram is Dual Channel is irrelevent and wrong - it isn't a function of the ram, it is a function of the memory controller.


This isn't that hard to understand UNLESS you are being purposely stubborn!


The Antarctic ice is melting - now THAT is important!

[NooNoo]

Now that you the ram is dependent on which processor is in that model lappy are P42.4ghz or more and AMD 64 processors so in fact your saying these dual channel compatable lappys you say does not call for Dual Channel Memory

uhh, you want to punctuate that so I can properly understand, or should I just guess? I think you are saying these laptops are all fitted out for dual channel memory architecture... they don't appear to be from the specifications of the few I looked up.

even though HP's webpage recommends DDR/PC2700 Dual Channel Memory!!

Where on that page does it mention Dual Channel Memory? It mentions (correctly) DDR RAM in 512mb or 1GB. When you click the 1gb link, it is for a single stick of ram... nothing dual about it.

I"m having doubts your positive of appropriate componets when your disagreed with Ferret's suggestion OMG's suggestion, HP's support recommendations.

You may have all the doubts you like, they are yours after all. I said that where the laptop has no dual channel capability it makes not one whit of difference whether the ram is upgraded in match pairs or not. Ferret pointed out it was a good practice and I agree, BUT when you have to disassemble the entire laptop to upgrade the ram, the risk and/or cost to the user makes it much more expensive and since the laptop is not dual channel capable, there is little point in upgrading both the internal and the user accessible ram. The laptop will run fine with just the user accessible stick upgraded.

NooNoo Dual Channel Memory refers to the ram/MB/CPU all 3 compatable componets to achieve Dual Channel preformance. Now chew on that awhile.

That's odd, you didn't say that before, you said that ... and I quote:

and BTY any Intel P4 2gb+/AMD 64 2gb+ processors support Dual Channel Technology as both type procesors used by that model lappy's FSB's are over a minimum 533mhz

You seem to be saying it was a function of the processor FSB speed. Then I pointed out that you were wrong again and quoted you examples, and now all of a sudden, you admit that the motherboard has a part to play. The RAM of course has a part to play, but only needs to be a pair of same spec sticks.

So are you saying now that you have learned something?

[MobilePCPhysician]

???????

[NooNoo]

LOL Mobile, at least he would actually read the links and understand what was being said.

So back to OMG

"Suggests" is not a fact.

The processors are indeed capable. But as you have learned, the motherboard must also be capable.

The intel boards are the 855 chipset Click on the link, and look down the left hand column until your eyes alight on the row called "Memory Channels". Exactly how many memory channels does the 855 support?


Now the AMD models are a little more confusing. The chipset is apparently an nForce 3, and that should be enough you would have thought. Again, assumptions, not facts. HP had these boards made especially so that they would never support dual channel memory.

So you can be rude as you generally are. You can make all the assumptions you like. But at the end of the day you are wrong. The ZV5000 series does not support dual channel memory architecture. It does support Double Data Rate RAM and the speed of the RAM needed entirely depends on which CPU is in it. I don't doubt that PC2700 will be more than adequate for Smith's needs. But he won't have to replace both sticks since his laptop doesn't support dual channel memory architecture.

[NooNoo]

You are right, I confused the ZV and the ZX series - the ZX series has the 855 chipset, the ZV Intel Processors use the ATI 9100 IGP chipset. The same is true of the ATI chipset though, HP have deliberately removed the capability from the motherboard.


I am done explaining it to you OMG. If you want proof, phone HP. I am sure if you yell at them long enough the customer representative will escalate your call until you get to the magic fairy who will be delighted to enable dual channel capability on motherboards where there is currently none.

In fact, if you did achieve that, you would make a lot of zv5000 laptop owners very happy.

[NooNoo]

OMG do you know LVDS does? I know it says dual channel, but really, you are grasping at straws, it isn't to do with RAM.

And the link is to the nVidia graphics driver... what has the graphic driver got to do with whether the motherboard has the necessary 128bit interface for AMD processors or for Pentiums the dual memory controllers?

The zv5000 series comes in quite a few different builds, you can have different processors, different graphics, some are onboard others are not.

NooNoo explain how to achieve 3.0ghz processor without dual channeling"

Ummm the rating of 3.0ghz is given as a result of the number of basic instructions the processor can handle in one second. 3.0ghz means it can handle 3 million instructions in one second. Wikipedia have a nice article on it As you can see, clock speed has nothing to do with dual channel memory controllers.


But to answer your question intel used netburst, for AMD did you mean actual clock speed or PR rating?

Either way, AMD had this fancy way of dealing with floating point operations so that the processor could handle more than one operation at the same time. This meant that clock for clock, an AMD did 9 operations for every 6 an Intel did, but the actual clock speed on the AMD was lower... from this was born the PR rating.

[NooNoo]

just a copy

NooNoo wrong again the ZV notebook uses ATI 9600 GPU



NooNoo thanks that your done explaining you do not know lappy's equipped with Dual channel capabilitys and functions with Dual Channel Technology


Fact is NooNoo I've have nothing to do with what lappy manufactures build, the fact remains the same you cannot accept the fact your wrong on all counts.


-----------------

Off of laptop retailer site:


HP ZV5000 Intel MotherBoard Sealed

100% Guarantee

System board (motherboard) - Full-featured with IEEE 1394 and integrated 5-in-1 Digital Media Slot -
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 graphics controller with 128MB DDR discrete memory


-----------------------------------------------------------------



Premium 3d Performance
First notebook GPU to support Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0
Pixel and Vertex Shader 2.0
Quad Rendering & Dual Vertex engines
Full precision floating point with full performance
First notebook GPU with 0.13 µ
Fastest 3D engine speed
Low 1.0V operation
Support for AGP 8X
Smartshader™ 2.0
Provides comprehensive hardware accelerated support for Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0 programmable shader model 2.0
Full supported by OpenGL® using custom extensions
Up to 16 textures per pixel
Up to 12 pixel shader operations per clock cycle
Enables advanced Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0 effects such as multiple render targets, user clip planes and high dimension floating point textures
Smoothvision™ 2.1
Multisampling with 6 unique samples per pixel and ATI patented gamma correction
Eliminates “jaggies” on the edges of objects and other visual artifacts for smoother-looking images without compromising performance
16X Anisotropic filtering
Hyper M™ Technology For Highest Memory Bandwidth
Support for GDDR2-M memory, offering highest mobile memory speeds with lowest power consumption
Maximum effective bandwidth through:
Lossless color compression
Lossless z-compression (8:1 with no FSAA, up to 24:1 with FSAA)
Powerplay™4.0
ATI’s fourth-generation PowerPlay™ power management technology provides users with the optimal balance between performance and power consumption
Multiple power-saving settings offer increased control and flexibility
POWER-ON-DEMAND – constantly monitors system activity, dynamically adjusting clocks and voltage based on user scenario
LOW POWER LCD – enables lower LCD refresh rate for longer battery life
ATI Overdrive™ – on-chip thermal sensor enables performance to scale up dependent on notebook thermal environment
Razor-Sharp Visual Quality
Hydravision™ software which provides the most flexible and easy-to-use interface for multiple display settings
---->NooNoo "Note" @@@-->Integrated dual-channel LVDS<--@@@, with support for notebook LCD panels as up to QXGA resolutions (2048x1536)
165 MHz integrated TMDS transmitter, for support of DVI Digital Flat Panels at up to UXGA resolution (1600x1200)
Integrated TV-Out Encoder
Dual RAMDACs at speeds of 400MHz
Integrated HDTV encoder, supporting component output (YPbPr) for both North American and Japanese D-link connectors
Accelerated Home & Business Multimedia
Hardware acceleration for MPEG encoding and decoding, for DVD playback, personal video recorder and time-shifting applications
Video Input Port for notebook TV-tuner solutions
FullStream™ - hardware accelerated video de-blocking for enhanced Internet streaming video quality
Optimized support for wide-aspect LCD panels and HDTV output
Multiple Variants For Ultimate Design Flexibility
ATI Mobility Radeon™ 9600 series is ATI’s seventh generation of mobile graphics with integrated on-chip memory delivering true flexibility for numerous mobile form factors, from full size to “thin-and-light”.
Discrete
On-chip 32MB DDR (64-bit)
On-chip 64MB DDR (128-bit)
On-chip 128MB DDR (128-bit)
Mobility Radeon™ 9600 Pro Offers Even Higher Performance Based On:
Highest clock speeds
ATI Overdrive™ technology
GDDR2-M memory
--------------------------------------------------------
"NooNoo explain how to achieve 3.0ghz processor without dual channeling"


Off of another laptop retailer site:

HP Pavilion zv5000 Intel P4 CPU MOTHERBOARD

Motherboard WITHOUT PROCESSOR OR MEMORY

Other Features:
Pulled from like new HP Pavilion zv5000 laptops, which worked perfectly
Has a video card built in
Intel CPU Board - It originally had an Intel P4 3GHz CPU
Includes System Board, Modem, Cooling Fans, Hard Drive Rack, PC Card Slots,


--------------------------------------

Board with AMD proccessors:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/s...=385148&os=228

[NooNoo]

NooNoo LVDS Transmitting DDR Data Between Low-voltage differential signaling, or LVDS, is an electrical signaling system that can run at very high speeds over cheap, twisted-pair copper cables. It was introduced in 1994, and has since become very popular in computers, where it forms part of very high-speed networks and computer buses.

Yes and what you asked me to look at was

---->NooNoo "Note" @@@-->Integrated dual-channel LVDS<--@@@, with support for notebook LCD panels as up to QXGA resolutions (2048x1536)

You see, you posted a GPU spec... one that could drive an high resolution LCD screen. This has nothing to do with dual channel memory controllers.

Thank you for the cut and paste from Wikipedia. Since you didn't credit the author Here is the original article. Please, in future, if you are going to lift entire articles, please make sure you link to the original article so that the author doesn't feel plagiarised.

You asked me how they made a 3.0ghz processor without dual channelling.

The topic is about dual channel memory controllers.

Dual channel memory controllers do not affect the clock speed of a CPU. Double and quad pumping is about (as you said) using the leading and falling edge of the cycle... NOT about doubling the pathways to the DIMMS. Dual channel memory controllers affect the amount of data that can be transferred between the DIMMS and the CPU. The speed at which the data travels between the CPU and DIMMs is unaffected.

Now Netburst is the pipeline design "breakthrough" that underpins the orginal P4 socket 478 design. The netburst design was used on the P4 478 3.0ghz Intel processors. The netburst design was supposed to scale all the way to 10ghz, but the usual problem occurred - the more transistors and the faster clock gave the designers thermal problems so they changed to core microarchitecture.

Lappys have options for onboard GPU's or none at all thats brilliant I've never ran across any lappys that didn't have an onboard GPU

I am posting from one such lappie... it's a 4 year old Acer Centrino.

[NooNoo]

No I haven't assumed. I have researched. I checked several of the many model in the ZV5000 series. Some of them have onboard gpus, others don't. Some have AMD processors, others have Intel processors.

So if you are so confident of your facts, post what happens in the following scenario.

Remember you said

suggest single channel ram= "half preformance" on a dual channel lappy

example is bios settings to achieve the processors FSB potential

the controllers increase the bandwidth/aka data rate increases FSB's potential for hi end processors.

Intel P4 2gb+/AMD 64 2gb+ processors support Dual Channel Technology as both type procesors used by that model lappy's FSB's are over a minimum 533mhz

You buy two Intel P4 2.0GHz 400MHz 512KB Socket 478 CPUs
You buy one D845PESV Intel Motherboard
You buy one D865PESO Intel Motherboard
You buy two matched pairs of DDR RAM PC3200

You buy two cases, two power supplies and a couple of AGP 4x/8x graphic cards and a couple of monitors.

You build two machines. You boot both machines.

One machine is not dual channel memory enabled, the other isn't. When you post the machines does one machine show a different a different speed? According to you it should.


For the last time Dual Channel Memory Architecture does not increase the processor speed. It does increase the volume of data that can be transported between the RAM and the Processor. The processor is therefore not waiting for data from the RAM and wasting clock cycles. The processor runs at the same speed for which the formula is

(Pump X FSB)xMultiplier=The processor speed that the BIOS reports.

You can test this another way if you like

Take a motherboard and processor that support dual channel memory.
Get two 512mb sticks of matched RAM of the appropriate speed and one 1GB stick of RAM of the same speed as the matched pair.
Boot the machine with the matched pair in only so that it is running in dual channel memory mode. Run whatever tests to assure yourself of the processor's FSB. Run some benchmark tests on the memory and save the results.

Now shutdown the machine, remove the matched pair and put in the 1GB stick. Boot the machine... you will find that the processor's FSB has not changed. Run your memory bench mark tests and you will find that you won't have halved the performance of the machine, performance will only be down between 5% and 25% depending on the test.

[NooNoo]

Have you called HP yet?
Have you done the tests I outlined in post #74?

You seemed to have side stepped the issue of whether the ZV5000 series supports dual channel memory architecture completely now.... and since that is what we are discussing, it seems odd to me that you would get hung up on the graphics.

Having said that, I will answer your question... but please make sure you phone HP and ask them if the ZV5000 series supports dual channel memory architecture.

Actually it was you who implied that ZV5000s can come with separate graphics cards... I said

You are right, I confused the ZV and the ZX series - the ZX series has the 855 chipset, the ZV Intel Processors use the ATI 9100 IGP chipset. The same is true of the ATI chipset though, HP have deliberately removed the capability from the motherboard.

NooNoo wrong again the ZV notebook uses ATI 9600 GPU

Given that you are intelligent and that you are competent to discuss ATI chipsets that are paired with mobility GPUs I thought that you probably knew of a ZV5000 series model with a separate 9600 card.

A quick search of zv5000 motherboards turns up a fair few configurations. I wasn't about to check them all and since I have dealt with laptops which have separate graphics cards, your assertion that a model in the ZV5000 had a 9600 seemed entirely reasonable.

The onboard or offboard state of the GPU had no relevance to whether the various ZV5000 motherboards has dual channel memory architecture, I simply changed my general statement to include on or offboard graphics.

I didn't want to get into graphics options, I wanted to stay with the subject - dual channel memory controllers and whether any of the motherboards available in the HP ZV5000 series were capable of supporting dual channel memory architecture.

According to my research - the answer is NO. The ZV5000 series, regardless of whether it is an AMD or Intel based model will not support dual channel memory because HP made the motherboards without the necessary components/interfaces.

Please, just phone HP if you don't believe me.