Windows 7 Shortfalls
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  1. #1
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    Windows 7 Shortfalls

    By now the everyday power user is starting to unfortunately realize that Windows 7 doesn't measure up to its predecessor, Microsoft XP. So I thought I would start this form topic to help users find real solutions to their frustrating problems and ideally make people more efficient when using Windows 7, since it’s here to stay until at least 2012.

    Since Microsoft has been slimming down their Windows Operating system removing a lot of the useful menu options and tools we relied on in previous versions I thought I’d mention a few free third party supplements to make up for some of the shortfalls.

    If you are looking for a file association editor something that use to exist in XP and was used on occasion when a program would not associate properly to a file or would change the default action of a file type here is a third party tool that restores this function back into both Windows 7 and Windows Vista using a this free third party program.

    http://www.creativelement.com/powertools/

    The Microsoft built-in equivalent can be found in the Windows 7 / Vista operating system in: Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Default Programs\Set Associations. But you'll soon realize this interface is quite limited as to the actions that can be performed on a specific file association and is really only intended for the novice. But this free power tool above fits the bill nicely.

    Secondly, the Windows Search still doesn't work properly in Windows 7. I’m sure this was one feature Microsoft wished they would have just left alone when it use to work so well in XP. Ooops! It’s a known and proven fact that the windows 7 search is inferior to even the old DOS dir /s /o /a command. But DOS is old school and most users don’t want to have to open a command line to hammer out syntax. Plus Microsoft is trying to direct users to the point and click approach while attempting to simulate a Mac feel.

    Here’s how to eliminate those long delays in searching for files where the folders already have been indexed and your lost file is still is not appearing. I would like to recommend (tried and tested myself) this amazing little free program which you will find your files a billion times faster than the Windows 7search. Its amazing how such a small third party program can spank a native windows search.

    Please check it out at: http://www.voidtools.com/download.php

    Last but not least, I’d personally like to take a shot at the Microsoft Office 2010 group. After many years of managing peoples office based applications and e-mail Microsoft still hasn’t figured out what truly is important in an office based product. A good backup program to automate a back-up procedure for managing the process of backing up and restoring Business Contact Manager database and Outlook .PST files.

    PFBackup was a great add on for Outlook 2007 & Outlook 2003 but in XP only. The reason why I say XP only is because PFbackup was never compatible with Vista or Windows 7 due to a delay in shutting down Outlook.exe which caused the PFBackup to fail due to a file lock condition on the database during Outlook.exe shutdown.

    In any case would anyone know of any known good third party free utility that can accomplish what PFbackup use to do for Outlook 2003 in Office 2010?

    Also wondering if anyone has any insight on Business Contact Manager 2010 and if it can be used in a centralize network environment so that the BCM databases can reside on a file server for network users so there is one point of origin and it can then be backed up easier? It's crazy to see that so many people even still use BCM after 2003 when really google apps offers a cheaper, easier and more reliable solution.

    Any thoughts are appreciated.
    Last edited by pbolduc; August 5th, 2010 at 12:52 AM.

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    Just a few more items to add to the list

    Just the other day I was copying and pasting some files from my hard-drive to my network storage device using Windows Explorer. Needless to say the copy process took 5 attempts to copy the selected files to the remote device as each time I attempted to copy the files from the source to the destination I was prompted by a different error.

    For example:

    1) Unable to copy file test.txt because access is denied. This occurred because the NTFS file system lost the ownership information on the file and the NTFS permissions were no longer retained in the file security section of the file. Of course the first thing I attempted was to push the parent file system permissions down to the child objects. Of course this did as I told it to do however the file with the missing Ownership information again neglected to inherit the file system permissions. So after manually taking ownership of the file then pushing out the file permissions over again was I able to copy the file successfully.

    2) Following this error I was unable to copy another file because somehow the file name was too long for the copy process to copy. Once again halting my copy process and having me to start all over from the beginning. I'm not sure how it let me create a file that was too long in length in the first place? What's the point of creating a file you can't do anything with?

    Anyway, each time the copy process failed I had to restart the copy process from the beginning as I wasn't sure what was copied and what wasn’t. So to ensure all files transferred properly I started the copy process over from the beginning. Finally I had success! All my files were transferred from the hard-drive to Network Storage Device.

    Now my suggestion and question would be: Wouldn't it make more sense to not halt on a file copy error but continue on to the next file and after the file copy process finishes generate a report indicating the files & their extensions with their associated folder path that failed to copy instead of stopping the copy and paste process and having to start all over again?

    In my opinion that would make me a more efficient user.

    3) Also, I have found that moving large amounts of data from one folder to another on the same volume or from one logical partition to another takes longer in windows 7 than it did in XP. Would that be because of the system overhead or is the embedded Windows Defender service scanning each file as it copies?

    4) The "Run as administrator" context menu doesn't always show up when right clicking on a program. Instead, the hidden method of CTRL + Shift needs to be pressed before selecting the program to run. Just a little frustrating bug I've noticed.


    5) Windows 7 does not indicate which folders are shared network folders when browsing files in windows explorer. More of an inconvenience than a bug. I miss that little helping hand it made me more efficient.

    6) When attempting to start an existing VPN connection from the network icon in the notifications center in Windows 7. The connection displays the error: This connection requires an active internet connection when attempting to click the connect button. Even though the PC has internet access. VPN connections are unable to be established. A work around to this Windows 7 glitch is to navigate to the Control Panel> Network and Internet > Network Connections and manually select the VPN connection to start it from there. Frustrating, but thank goodness there’s more than one way to skin a cat in Windows 7 =)

    7) Wouldn't it be nice to be able to Slipstream a Windows 7 service pack into a Windows 7 image without having to do a clean install of the operating system just to integrate a service pack? This would make me definitely a more efficient user. I miss the old ServicePack.exe /integrate:C:\i386

    8) User's cannot create a Documents System Icon on their Desktop like in XP. So much for efficiency. Now a junction point has to be used to create a folder Similar to the My Documents Folder in XP using a traditional DOS prompt window. Seems like a step backwards not forward thinking. Here would be the syntax: mklink /D "My Documents" C:\Users\MyProfileName\Documents

    It would be nice if these fixes were included in a Service Pack release instead of just using service packs as an accumulation of known security updates. I better stop here for now before this article gets too long & boring.
    Last edited by pbolduc; August 10th, 2010 at 12:05 AM.

  3. #3
    Chat Operator Matridom's Avatar
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    What are you going on about??

    Most of these things you are commenting on are irrelivant.

    File permissions.. I manage a domain that runs in 2008 R2, that's the windows 7 kernel. I've **never** had a permission change itself, any permissions problems i've encountered are there because i created the problem locking shares down.

    Long file name.. This is well know to proffessionals, Directory paths with filenames cannot exceed 256 characters.. Take a look at where you are copying to.

    When moving files within the same partition, windows rewrites the TOC (table of contents) to show the data in a new folder, the data is never physicaly moved on the platter. I've moved 8 gig files in less than 1 second. If it's taking longer, you have other issues. When moving from partition to partition, windows has almost no effect on the transaction, it's all based on the speed of your hard drive. If you think windows 7 is slow compared to XP, I'll challenge you. Take any spindled hard drive and go head to head with any SSD, REGARDLESS of windows and you will see a DRASTIC improvement with the SSD's. This argument only holds weight if you measured it in both windows with the EXACT SAME hardware.

    Run as administrator should not be used. I like the fact that it's not showing, it won't tempt users to put it to use.

    File shares.. This is the only one that holds any weight and as you've said yourself, not that big of a deal. There are other places to see what is shared and i would recommend using them.

    VPN.. Uhm, again, this must just be you, i have atleast 5 computers that run windows 7 and connect to the VPN, I teach my users how to use the notification area to connect. I've never had an issue, this is comming from people like accountants who will complain to me if their mouse is not working, only to realize it's not plugged in.

    Service pack? Uhm, It's in BETA right now, I will expect that when it's publicly release, slipstreaming will be an option. Additionally, with windows 7, most of the data is already installed, there is no need to make an i386 folder or similar. Try adding/removing features and see if it prompts you for the CD. Either way, worry about something like this when the service pack is ready for final release and shows up in Windows Update.

    my documents icon, right click desktop, personalize, desktop icons, put a check mark in "User's Files", if you are on a domain, you can use GPO's to force this out to all users.

    I believe that if you take a few minutes to research your subject, you may realize that yes, things are different in windows 7 then in previous operating systems. Change can go good or bad, and a change that i find good, may seem like a bad change for you. Overall, i think the improvements made in windows 7 far far outstripe any problems that have been inccured.

    I would also take the time to research a "problem" to see if it is really a windows bug/design flaw or just an issue with your installation.
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    Woah...

    Wow, I didn't expect someone to make excuses for why these features don't work properly. I'm not the only one having these issues, any one of these issues can be googled only to find numerous people experiencing the same problems. Thanks to Google that is how I found some of my solutions I posted.

    If you have never seen any ownership problems with the NTFS file system just randomly removing ownership without any changes being made to the ACL or the fileshare permissions then you mustn't have been working with NTFS for very long. Give it a few more days.

    I see this type of problem at least once every 3 months. Especially being a Domain administrator where the security permissions are hardened down and no one ever changes them. It seems to occur when there are many folders and files on a volume and every now and then an entire folder or file will lose its ACL. Sometimes running a chkdsk /f can fix this problem when it verifies the security descriptors. Typically I just retake ownership and continue on. No, it’s not a bad hard-drive.

    It’s not like a computer program can produce unique problem only for one individual and no one else. It is just a matter of understanding the conditions that caused the software to behave the way it did and why. Honestly the problems are always the same problems over and over again until the software is fixed. Software is typically precompiled at least the Microsoft software I use.

    As for the SSD test wouldn't that prove that SSD are a faster medium for reading then spindle hard-drives but not a fair comparrison to test XP vs. Windows 7. Or perhaps that would indicate that SSD support in 7 is better than in XP. I'm currious as to why you chose SSD? Why not just two identical SATA drives on two identical platforms. Personally I'd rather use a high end SCSI drive then an SSD anyday. I still don't trust SSD media. Plus TRIM only works in Windows 7 and not in XP therefore I don't think it would be a conclusive test.

    I'm not here to start a form fight =) Thanks for your input Mat. It's always interesting to see things from a different perspective.
    Last edited by pbolduc; August 10th, 2010 at 10:28 AM.

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    I just finished writing a page and a half in regards to your post pbolduc, then i realized that it would serve no good. You've made up your mind regarding the perceived design flaws, and trying to convince you of anything different would be the equivilant of moving the stars or having smart users. All three will never happen.
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    Okay Grasshoppa!

    Your Tiger Style Word-fu is strong, but my Dragon style will defeat it.

    Mariska Hargitay...

    Hold me back Ferrit! Hold me Back!

    Mariska Hargitay...
    Last edited by pbolduc; August 10th, 2010 at 02:28 PM.

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    pdolduc, the reason you didn't initially get many responses to this thread was that most forum members were trying to avoid a response.

    It is very, very hard to find a tactful way to tell someone that they are full of crap. Personally, I don't usually bother with tact, but I also hate to discourage anyone posting on the forum. Matridom is to be congratulated for making an effort to present a well reasoned reply to your disjointed and generally incorrect assessment of Windows 7.

    I've got to say I found your utility for changing file association is Win7 really useful, because I used it to deal with a program that one of my credit unions needs to receive reports from their data center. If I had to wait for the data center to fix their lousy software, I could be dead first. It's a bug that effects every version of Windows from W2K forward. Thank you for that useful utility.

    Mostly, all you are doing is either picking nits about changes in Win7 or erroneously attributing bugs in third party software to changes in the OS. At the same time, you ignore the fact that Win7 is the first successful 64 bit OS, and that it offers superior multitasking, enhanced efficiency in memory utilization, native DVD burning, etc. Your assessment of is deliberately biased, and it stinks.

    As an IT professional who makes most of his income from supporting corporate clients, I'd say that the "every day power user" is generally some bozo who knows just enough to be dangerous and, along with the airheads who can't understand why "free" screen savers and file sharing are dangerous, constitute most of my support headaches.

    I've owned personal computers since 1981, and been an IT professional for over a decade, and the one thing that's been consistent in nearly 30 years has been listening to people who aren't intelligent enough or adaptable enough to deal with change rant about how the last version was better than whatever was new and different. Take you fire-hardened spears and flint knives and go home.
    Last edited by slgrieb; August 10th, 2010 at 06:25 PM.

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    I guess stating the obvious truth doesn't get a person very far.

    I'm not full of crap, but you’re right about the way I approached the matter, it stinks. I came down on Windows 7 pretty hard when there could have been more serious problems to contend with. However, all my points can be backed up by example as well as proven workarounds to resolve these inconvenient truths. I have nothing to gain by stating these remarks as I am in the same business as you.

    Another point I was trying to make is, not always is the latest greatest thing from a software company the best thing since sliced bread just because it’s a new version. (I also believe XP Pro 64 Bit was the first successful 64 bit OS). The reason why I've written what I have written is in hopes that some Microsoft programmer reading this form can perhaps bring up some of these points during their next meeting and take into consideration these changes for future builds.

    For me, I'm just tired of having to go back to the drawing board each time they release a new product which is generally plagued by existing problems carried over and compounded by new and improved problems just because they decided to release a new version.

    Obviously I hit a nerve in the community and maybe something will become of it. What drives me nuts are the people that know these little problems exist and refuse to admit that there are problems and turn a blind eye to them as if Microsoft never makes a mistake in their software. It’s no wonder so many people are targeting Microsoft software because its people like you who fuel them to rip it apart just to prove a point.

    Very much like all those people who initially supported Vista out of the gate when Vista was released. I never pushed Vista onto anyone except for those that demanded I sell it to them. Then I gave them what they asked for, but I strongly advised them against the purchase as I told them to wait for Windows 7 and to stick with XP Home / Pro SP3.

    I'm just looking out for public’s better interest who lookup to people in the industry who have already experienced the products and provide them with an unbiased stand point. A non salesmen version of what features are not mentioned in the sale of the software.

    Slgried - I'm happy to hear the creativelement powertools software helped you. I guess to make a long story short everyone in this industry is plague with their fair share of problems and at the end of the day the last thing they want to read is someone focusing more on the negative then the positive. As the positives of Windows 7 completely out weight the negatives. If I offended anyone in my posts I'm sorry as it was not my intention. I'll only post useful information instead of flaming my frustrations on the forms. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

    Slgrieb - When did I give you the impression I was attributing bugs in third party software? All my complaints on this form topic have been personally experienced issues with a vanilla install of Windows 7 no additional software required. Just wanted to make that clear. The VPN issue I believe cleared itself up after I rebooted the Windows 7 PC and it hasn't surfaced since. I just reloaded Windows 7 for the third time on this PC due to hardware changes. Now that I'm starting from scratch again we'll see if the same problems surface again. Perhaps if you don't believe my words I'll take screen captures of all the problems and post links to them on this form. Just so you know i'm not making it up. But for some reason I still think you'll deny their existence.
    Last edited by pbolduc; August 11th, 2010 at 10:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Chat Operator Matridom's Avatar
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    slgrieb, do you remember my first signature when i started here? I'll send you a PM if you've forgotten. Anyways, i think it applies very well here.
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  11. #11
    Chat Operator Matridom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbolduc View Post
    The reason why I've written what I have written is in hopes that some Microsoft programmer reading this form can perhaps bring up some of these points during their next meeting and take into consideration these changes for future builds.
    Then go post on the Technet forums where people from microsoft are likely to see it instead of standing on your soap box here.
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    Registered User Ferrit's Avatar
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    I find windows 7 to be a far superior leap forward to the one experienced by us when we dropped 98 and went to xp.
    Its miles ahead in the load and ship it without issue category and frankly as a guy building and supporting.
    That's really all i give a ****e about
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  13. #13
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    OK, I’m getting sick and tired of this the more I think about it, the more I need to say something. Contrary to my better judgment, I’m going to “pick a bone” so to speak with your points. Let’s be clear on one thing, I don’t make excuses, I know there are some faults with Windows 7, just like there are faults with XP, Linux, MacOS etc.etc.etc. NOTHING is perfect. I just believe that your arguments and your “proof” are full of excrement that comes out of Bulls. If you still don’t get it, look up Penn & Teller’s show, the title says everything.

    The reason I’m replying is because I can’t stand people who blame everything on outside forces. Take responsibility for your own actions. Just because you can’t learn how to use windows 7 fully does not mean it’s windows 7’s fault.


    NTFS:

    First off, "Not dealing with NTFS for very long"? I’ve used nothing but NTFS since 1998, when i moved from win98 to nt4.0 on my personal computer. If you are so familiar with NTFS, you should already know that the version of NTFS(3.1) used by windows 7 is the EXACT same one used by XP. So if it affects windows 7, then it will affect XP. Your argument about NTFS being worse in windows 7 vs XP is completely false.

    Now, I do agree that NTFS has had issues in the past. Mostly when NTFS received a major update, the one that affected me the most was the jump from 1.2 to 3.0 (nt4.0 - 2k), this caused a major issue with my data. This i will attribute to a design flaw that was later corrected. NT4.0 without service packs is incapable of reading NTFS 3.0/1. During the 2k install, it would auto convert all NTFS partitions to the new version. This was corrected in the final release of Windows 2000, it did not auto-convert NTFS versions. But you knew that right?

    So I guess I don’t know much about NTFS and I’ve not had much experience with it. After all, 10+ years is a short time in the IT industry.


    It’s on Google, so it must be true:

    Oh, this one I have a **BIG** issue with. First you need to realize that with millions of users, people will create similar problems, people use similar software and have similar habits, this will create the semblance of bug and if not investigated properly, will appear to be so at a glance.

    Due diligence needs to be done to make sure that it’s an issue with the underlying software and NOT with an application conflict or user created problem.

    If it’s a software problem, it’s Microsoft’s fault:

    Another big misconception, Microsoft when they produce an operating system they try as much as the can to make things backwards compatible, heck in Windows98, they had a special loop to catch simcity so it would run without crashing. They are unable however to test every single piece of software ever written. Personally I think they do a good job at maintaining backwards compatibility with older stuff while pushing forward with new things, often the drastic changes are in regards to security.

    Look at your “Run as administrator”, and how you thought it sucked that it was not always there. But look back at why it’s needed. Do user programs really need to run in the administrative space of the system, Does Simcity really require admin rights? No, it does not. The reason it does is that XP and every Windows OS before was more lax in security, so programmers took shortcuts on the assumption of admin rights and wrote software as easily as they could keeping to the constraints giving. It’s a fact that it’s harder to write a program that does not use administrative rights, since time is money and everyone has admin rights, why not make that assumption and save some money? I won’t totally blame this on programmers, it’s partially Microsoft’s fault for allowing those permissions in the first place.


    The sake of progress for progress:

    I somewhat agree with this statement, however, let me quantify it. Going to the latest and greatest is not always best, but in some cases, it can be. Windows 7 kernel has now been out for several years and is stable. If you look at new technologies, such as server virtualization, it took years and years for the technology to be proven before being pushed into a work environment, it’s now considered a best practice to have everything virtualized. I look at new technology and see how it will affect my environment and users. I’ll say this, I get more support calls from XP users then I do from windows 7 users. If I go by proportions, XP outstrips Vista and 7 across my support issues. This is considering out of 50 computers, only 3 still run XP.


    XP 64 bit, first commercial success:

    This I have to disagree with wholeheartedly, mostly because it’s based on opinion and not fact. You think it was successful. But look at HP, Dell and the other big box companies, they would not even sell it to you. With Dell, you could only by 64 bit on servers until windows 7 was released. Now you can get them in 64 bit. HP started supporting vista 64 bit, but not XP. So by what standard are you defining “Commercial success”? (btw, you don’t need to answer that, there is no standard other than being “the first”)


    I/O performance:

    I think you miss-read my entire argument. My point was that the speed of the hard drive and the underlying I/O system has a far greater impact on the performance of the drive throughput then the OS does. In order to show a difference, the hardware does indeed need to be taking out of the equation, I stated this in my first argument, but you ignored it then accused me of not making that qualification. I used SSD’s as an example as they are now more common than SCSI and show a drastic improvement over currently standard technology, this was to drive the point that the hardware is vastly more important than the software when it comes to these types of performances. I won’t even comment on the viability of the different technologies and what is better, we are having difficulty enough with windows, let’s not go down the slippery road of hardware.



    In final, I think that slgrieb hit the nail on the head in regards to your views on “the good old days” some people don’t like change and are incapable of adapting to a changing world and rather than blaming it on themselves, they blame it on the change. The unfortunate truth is that the IT industry is one of the most evolving fields in the work sector and if you can’t accept that simple fact, you may have chosen the wrong profession. If you like fixing thing, might I suggest a career as a mechanic?
    Oh wait, those are going electric… Maybe a plumber then?
    Last edited by Platypus; August 12th, 2010 at 05:13 AM. Reason: Choice of example was a bit "off"
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    Glad you got that off your hands

    Hi Matridom,

    I’m not sure I should bother to reply to this one. But I do appreciate your valiant effort to support your theories. However, I think you’ve mis-understood what I was trying to say.

    I didn’t say XP Pro 64 bit was a commercial success. However at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the form moderators started editing my posts for me. What I said and meant was it was the first legitimate attempt at 64 bit windows. (As indicated previously)

    The Google reference was used just to make a point that I’m not the only person in the world with these type of error messages. Since you seem to think I’m making up these problems that don’t exist.

    I also think you might want to look up the differences between XP NTFS 5.1 & 5.2 and Windows Vista / 7 NTFS 6.0. They are not identical versions between the two operating systems. (XP & 7)

    Microsoft has done a great job in Windows 7 identifying faulty software without compromising the stability of the operating system. It is much easier now to tell when third party crap software is at fault.

    I disagree with your statement about programs running with administrator privileges. No software should have admin control over the Operating system. If it needs to make changes to system files it should cache a copy of that file in memory and run it from memory. No program should be able to make any changes to the operating system. The operating system should merely be read-only after the installation and run much like a console operating system. Any changes required should be done through memory or temporary storage mediums and not the partition with the installed operating system. The only changes made to the operating system should be done through a hardened Microsoft systems account for the purpose of Microsoft updates only. This is where Microsoft has gone wrong with their operating systems giving programs too much control of the system. One day they will learn.

    What I have learnt by posting on this form is that you are quick to blindly defend Microsoft while showing your true colors. Calling me down for speaking up about legitimate issues only showing your arrogance and your lack of respect for people who question. Just because I’ve posted a dozen problems that you can’t find answers to on the Microsoft Knowledge base or in your little pocket book doesn’t mean you should belittle me and call me a blatant liar. This form sure went downhill fast.

    What's really neat is I've managed to capture a history of our conversations for all to read and let's just say it doesn't do you any justice. I am sure now it's just a matter of time before some fed up form administrator terminates this thread as its going no where fast.
    Last edited by Platypus; August 12th, 2010 at 05:15 AM. Reason: Removed reference to deleted text

  15. #15
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    The proof is in the pudding.

    You know what, I'm more then willing to eat my own pie. Prove to me that NTFS will loose permissions. Prove it properly and i'll offer a complete apology and will be more than willing to admit that i was wrong. Create a scenerio where the problem can be recreated by others following a clear set of instructions. Then i will believe that NTFS has issue. Obviously you are confusing window versions with NTFS versions as these are not the same, but i'll overlook that.
    ( hint: try running the command: fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo c: from your window 7 command prompt - you will need admin rights to run this, if you don't have a windows 7 system handy, I included a screen shot)

    No one is going to buy your "known" problems until the proof is in the pudding, so i'm now calling you out. Prove it.
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