got a problem

[geeksRus]

i have a friend who is being charged with sending a threatening email. he swears he didnt do it and i believe him. the email was supposedly sent thru his yahoo account on his mothers machine almost a year ago. without the headers from the email how can they prove that the email came from him? i dont believe that the state has the complete email...just the printout made. this could have come from anywhere. how can he PROVE that he didnt send it? and wouldnt the state need the headers to prove where it came from? what would they need to prove the case against him? thanx people.

[Outcoded]

Innocent til proven I would have thought.

[ilovetheusers]

Records from the e-mail servers - they may have subpeonaed (sic?) yahoo who would be more than willing to turn over anything to the govt. Records from the threatened persons ISP would be likely to do show the mail came from that account. Simply looking at the properties of the sent mail will tell a lot as well.

The headers can be faked easily. I can make my e-mail addy look like it came from anywhere by just creating a new account and putting in a different name like [email protected] and reply to address as the same.

Also, if your friend is not using this e-mail account it is the onus of the state to prove it is his. Anyone may sign up for an e-mail account under an assumed name. I personally almost never give my real name when signing up for anything I'm not paying for on line. For all the state knows, someone used his name to create this account. I'm not sure but I don't think that logs go back so far or are even kept on who logged onto what account from what IP/ISP but don't know for sure as I don't work for yahoo. I know Scott has all of our IP's logged and with that IP one can track the ISP and maybe the mac address of the individual. Has the state confiscated his mothers PC yet to get the modem (or nic too)?

Never comunicate via e-mail if it is something that you would ever worry about another tracking or seeing. If the state has only a photocopied piece of paper then you friend is going to have a lawsuit against the people who have harassed him legaly but if they have server records he's going to go to the pokey. Personally unless they are prepared I can see a networking/lan expert ripping arguments to shreds for your bud.



I would raise the question - Is it feesable that another could spoof e-mail address or the mail server the mail came from? Anyone know if that can be done?

[Poseidon]

Probably someone using your friend’s name. Or – how secure is your friend’s mom’s computer? Someone could have compromised her computer and sent an email using your friend's name.

Don’t get me wrong – I believe you geekRus, but my gut tells me there’s something more than meets the eye going on here.

[geeksRus]

as far as i know, they wont show him the email, nor will they disclose what evidence they mite have. no ones computer has been seized or searched and i doubt that yahoo was even contacted. from what i understand all they have is one persons word against another and a piece of printed paper that could have been created with Notepad. but it is a real pain in the a$$ to have someone mess with you this way.

[NooNoo]

Originally posted by geeksRus
as far as i know, they wont show him the email, nor will they disclose what evidence they mite have. no ones computer has been seized or searched and i doubt that yahoo was even contacted. from what i understand all they have is one persons word against another and a piece of printed paper that could have been created with Notepad. but it is a real pain in the a$$ to have someone mess with you this way.

You said charged... as in the State is charging him? Or is it an enemy that is sueing him? Either way counter sue with harrassment charges.

[Ya_know]

Originally posted by geeksRus
as far as i know, they wont show him the email, nor will they disclose what evidence they mite have. no ones computer has been seized or searched and i doubt that yahoo was even contacted. from what i understand all they have is one persons word against another and a piece of printed paper that could have been created with Notepad. but it is a real pain in the a$$ to have someone mess with you this way.

Up front they may not show this evidence, but as a matter of disclosure its availability to his defense is required should this go to trial. If he is being held or charged, he needs a lawyer. Early disclosure may occur for arraignment hearing, and if it is bogus, the case can be thrown out, but in matters like these it is best to consult a lawyer, or public defender. They obviously have something if they charge him. Now should he confess, that is evidence enough, but without that, I strongly think this is a shot in the dark, and they should have very little to charge him…keep us posted.

[+Daemon+]

hummm


it is really hard to prove who/what/where/when on email...

thats why it so ez to send anonymous emails

example:

http://www.daemonprojects.com/fun/haxormail.php

thats a anonymous emailer I made.. though its just for fun and I post a banner in the email after its sent, the code is very ez to modify to send it to look like it was sent from someone else that it really wasnt.. its also ez to setup a system to run sendmail or any other email server software and fake an email.

so they really cannot prove who did it... its very hard to track someone with anonymouse email.. even harder if you really now how to use send mail thru telnet

really the only thing you can track is were and to the mail server names are

here is a header file from after I sent myself a anonymous email:


Received: from cor-smtp01
(cor-smtp01.co..ca.us [158.61.69.75])
by cor-mail02.co..ca.us; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 07:39:18 -0800
Received: FROM amp.phpwebhosting.com BY cor-smtp01 ; Thu Jan 02 07:36:00 2003 -0800
Received: (qmail 27127 invoked by uid 99); 2 Jan 2003 15:39:14 -0000
Date: 2 Jan 2003 15:39:14 -0000
Message-ID: <[email protected] m>
To: [email protected]
Subject: this is a test
From: <[email protected]>


h3ll0 7h15 15 4 7357


-----------
Sent with HaxorMail
http://www.daemonprojects.com/fun/haxormail.php
Send anonymous email with elite text


see all you can see are the two mail servers

Received: FROM amp.phpwebhosting.com

and

Received: from cor-smtp01
(cor-smtp01.co.ca.us [158.61.69.75])

so now how to find from there

[ilovetheusers]

Yeah, what was said above. Your bud needs a lawyer and then he can have evidence against him disclosed. If they only have someones word and a printout then they can prove nothing is a network professional will testify for him.

If it is a person suing him then he should countersue for court costs, lawyers fees and for time lost from work and for mental damage/wrongful prosecution (if he can). If the only evidence they have is a printed paper - he will win.

It is a distinct possability that the authorities have absolutly no idea what they are doing as well or are harassing this person just to do so. It's not too much of a stretch to believe in people abusing power in the legal system. The law is no joke. get a lawyer, get the evidence and get an expert who has great credentials and a security background. If the case is weak, sue.

What is your friend accused of makeing threats of anyway? Violence? Sexual deviation? Something else?

[Ya_know]

Originally posted by ilovetheusers
It is a distinct possability that the authorities have absolutly no idea what they are doing as well or are harassing this person just to do so.

I think you hit that nail right on the head! It may not be an abuse of power, but an ignorance of the possibilities is for sure.

Do any of you remember the movie “Bait” with Jamie Foxx, when the girl says “Nobody messes with Yahoo, you just can’t do that!” That is the attitude of most of the people that use but don’t understand the possibilities of email…

[Archangel42069]

I was always underthe impression that the state/federal government must show you evidence of wrongdoing if you are being charged...even without counsel? Also, if you are charged and do not understand the wrongdoing aren't they supposed to explain exactly what you are being charged with? At this point, unless there is actual talk of court proceedings, I think consulting a lawyer may be premature, as this may not even go to trial, which would mean he would have to file a civil suit against the government for the harassment, and if these people have enough pull and he has no record of the harassment, then he gets the big weenie on both ends, and has no lube to ease the pain...just my $0.02.

[Ya_know]

Originally posted by Archangel42069
I was always underthe impression that the state/federal government must show you evidence of wrongdoing if you are being charged...even without counsel? Also, if you are charged and do not understand the wrongdoing aren't they supposed to explain exactly what you are being charged with? At this point, unless there is actual talk of court proceedings, I think consulting a lawyer may be premature, as this may not even go to trial, which would mean he would have to file a civil suit against the government for the harassment, and if these people have enough pull and he has no record of the harassment, then he gets the big weenie on both ends, and has no lube to ease the pain...just my $0.02.

You are 100% right in theory. I would insist on disclosure up front too, without asking for counsel. However these things don't always happen. Because there is a need to protect any on going investigation, most, and sometimes all evidence will not be disclosed during interrogations. However, once you have counsel on your side, you can force a hand you once didn’t know you had. You can’t always just get up and walk out of an interrogation, but you counsel will know what legal leg you can stand on and get you out if you can. If you are being charged, counsel can get bail set reasonably.

We still really don’t know what is going on, because the original poster hasn’t feed us any more information. Yes, seeking counsel can be costly, but we don’t know if there is any other course…