[RESOLVED] What do other techs do when they find things like kiddie pron?

[Alaric]

I once worked for a small computer repair shop. One day we got in a PC that contained what was obviously kiddie porn. It's not like it was hidden in any way, the friggin desktop was a pic of an underage boy if I remember right. Anyway, the tech looked at the PC, and found a ton of the stuff, some even looked suspiciously like the guys kids. Long story short, tech brought it to jefe's attention. Happened to be a police Lt. standing there chatting, and well, he obviously would not let it slide. So we filed a report, and had the guy come in to pickup ZPC. He was arrested and they got warrant for his house. found hundreds of kiddie porn tapes there, including pics of his own kids. So he gets convicted in federal court, in jail now. And you know what? I don not in he lest feel bad for that prick. I'm happy we stopped him, from what I heard some of the tapes were from kids in the neighborhood. Good riddance, hope he finds out what rape is all about in prison.

[NooNoo]

Originally posted by factory81
Does anyone understand why PC repair shops don't do anything about it?

They don't want to be known as cops. People with warez will be afraid to take there computers to them. Microsoft wants people to take all illegal copies of Windows they see, and legally they can't install Windows onto a OS without a real legit cd-key sticker. But shops dont take people's illegal copies away.


People wouldnt shop there if they busted everything bad they saw.
They lose buisness over it in the end, what do they gain?

Errr... warez is one thing in a pc shop - kiddie porn is quite another... factory81 have you ANY idea what we are talking about?

[Ya_know]

Originally posted by factory81
Does anyone understand why PC repair shops don't do anything about it?

They don't want to be known as cops. People with warez will be afraid to take there computers to them. Microsoft wants people to take all illegal copies of Windows they see, and legally they can't install Windows onto a OS without a real legit cd-key sticker. But shops dont take people's illegal copies away.


People wouldnt shop there if they busted everything bad they saw.
They lose buisness over it in the end, what do they gain?

Most reputable stores don't really want that kind of business, but still don’t turn in Warrez, pirating, or porn. But kiddie porn is a different matter. It is a crime of humanity, and all children who are perpetrated are victims. The perpetrators should be dealt with severely!

Factory81, you are 17 years old, not even old enough to vote, let alone live a responsible life. You need to get a grip. You started that rant a while ago about legalizing drugs, now you talk about turning a shaded eye to perverted crimes, and piss all over the police. Take a step back, and reevaluate your position in society.

A persons privacy to break the law is not a constitutional right or privilege. As it turns out, there are many loopholes and avenues that people can use to get away with thousands of crimes, and for the most part I don’t care either. But all crimes have to be weighted, even in your own eyes. Stealing is not as bad as armed assault, and graffiti is not as bad as murder. You draw the lines as you see fit, but remember you have a lot to learn, so listen all around.


(Go ahead Wayward Clam, try to nail me on this age thing again.)

[kato2274]

Originally posted by Ya_know
Most reputable stores don't really want that kind of business, but still don’t turn in Warrez, pirating, or porn. But kiddie porn is a different matter. It is a crime of humanity, and all children who are perpetrated are victims. The perpetrators should be dealt with severely!

Factory81, you are 17 years old, not even old enough to vote, let alone live a responsible life. You need to get a grip. You started that rant a while ago about legalizing drugs, now you talk about turning a shaded eye to perverted crimes, and piss all over the police. Take a step back, and reevaluate your position in society.

A persons privacy to break the law is not a constitutional right or privilege. As it turns out, there are many loopholes and avenues that people can use to get away with thousands of crimes, and for the most part I don’t care either. But all crimes have to be weighted, even in your own eyes. Stealing is not as bad as armed assault, and graffiti is not as bad as murder. You draw the lines as you see fit, but remember you have a lot to learn, so listen all around.

preech it brother!

like noo, I've got your back too!

[Matridom]

Originally posted by factory81
Does anyone understand why PC repair shops don't do anything about it?

They don't want to be known as cops. People with warez will be afraid to take there computers to them. Microsoft wants people to take all illegal copies of Windows they see, and legally they can't install Windows onto a OS without a real legit cd-key sticker. But shops dont take people's illegal copies away.


People wouldnt shop there if they busted everything bad they saw.
They lose buisness over it in the end, what do they gain?

OK. I worked in a computer store, and help a lot in the chat HERE. now, if someone has warez, i don't care. BUT you'r going to take responsibility for your own stuff. Someone needs help installing windows? got a legal copy? sure, i'll help, got a warezed copy? go buy one and then come back.

When i was at the store, we did not check every computer for warez, however, if we needed to install windows, better have your legal copy and license key handy. Problem loading a game? have a legal copy handy. The issue for me is, that i don't go LOOKING for it, if i run across warez, unless he wants me to fix it, i don't care.

Now Kiddy porn? that is something else entirely. They don't have words to describe what i want to do to those people.

[Jeff the Brit]

I try to take a pre-emptive course of action. Some of my customers do like a bit of smut. I'll happily show them how to find free filth on Usenet and the Web, but I do my very best to scare them off EVER trying to look at kiddy porn. A lecture on how hard it is to really delete files, how ISPs keep records of IP addresses used by their customers, how white hat hackers actively pursue kiddy porn traders ... I aim to make the hair stand up on the backs of their necks. Google up details of kiddy porn busts to drive the point home, that sort of thing ... oh, and a mention of how ordinary decent axe murderers and armed robbers despise child molesters as the lowest of the low in prison.
So far, it seems to be effective. That said, if I ever found material of that kind on a customer's box, it'd be the quiet phone call to the cops. I don't believe any other customer would think the worse of me for turning in a pervert.

[]-[otRod]

Originally posted by Packrat
This has never happened to me, yeah I have seen alot of porn and weird stuff on peoples computers they brought in, but not kiddie porn.

Now a friend of mine ( ]-[otrod who comes on here) told me that the company he worked at found just such a thing.

They had two stores. One in small town and the other in a really small podunk town.

A guy came in with a computer problem and they found out it was a virus that was spread through a .vbs file that appeared as a .jpg file. (I.E. picture.jpg.vbs) so they did a search on all with *.jpg and found a slew of child porn on the computer. They called the cops immediately.

The police dept. was waiting for something like this to happen and made an example out of this guy. Not sure what happened to him, but I am sure he did some hard time.

The guy wound up committing suicide before he went to trial.... wasnt fun at all.

I still believe our manager made the right decision in calling the police. As horrible as that whole situation was, and became, it still burns me up everytime I think about the things we found on that computer...

[Archangel42069]

Ok, I agree 110% with turning someone in for kiddie porn - I just had my second son 1 1/2 weeks ago, and I know that if anything happened to one of my kids, they would have to put me to death for the rampage I would go on. However, I do get factory's point - he is just saying that if a repair shop turns one person in, they may not hesitate to turn someone else in. Still, it is my belief that if you think you are a good enough computer tech to be dabbling with warez and crackz and other piracy, you should be able to fix your problems yourself...

[Ya_know]

Originally posted by ]-[otRod
The guy wound up committing suicide before he went to trial.... wasnt fun at all.

I still believe our manager made the right decision in calling the police. As horrible as that whole situation was, and became, it still burns me up everytime I think about the things we found on that computer...

Thank you for sharing that realization.

Yes, it is a difficult decision, especially after what I am sure you and your manager went through making it; even the feeling of guilt following the suicide, but I support yours and his decision.

I also want to thank you for all of the children you are directly responsible for protecting and providing shelter for from future harm…

[ConanTroutman]

I have been confronted with this situation and I called the police. They told me I can be prosecuted if I don't turn them in (not that it would have ever come about) something like negligence. Just like if you are a Dr. and pass an accident if there are no EMS people on the scene. We all have moral obligations as law abiding US Citizens. Ever heard of a citizens arrest?

Speeding is not a felony. Molesting minors is not a misdemeanor.

I also own a computer shop, I don't want business from people that put me in these situations. I also want people that do crap like this to know that they WILL BE CAUGHT. I would expect that if the more decent customers we have will appreciate knowing that we don't turn on the blinders to this situation. If they do this sort of thing, they have a choice to (try) to hide it from us or fix the damn thing themselves. Computer techs are not policemen but hopefully they are human. Taxes pay for professionals to prosecute these guys true, but how do they get caught? wait until the FBI sets up a sting operation? or when they find kids remains out in the forest behind thier house? Why not get these guys the help they need (castration) before they harm someone? If no one in the world needed a computer would your computer business stay afloat? If there were no one to download kiddie porn would there be kiddie porn websites? (impossibility, obviously -just think about it). We don't snoop through peoples hard drives, we don't have time for that. But if it's obvious and you don't do anything about it, you are contributing to the problem, and quite possibly breaking the law yourself. Be a man or least human.




"Ok I own a small computer company and the policy that I use is simple. "The technician is NOT a policeman". If a Tech brings an Issue to me I will return the computer to the customer with a note stating "Fault not fixed, Objectional Material on Computer"

I do not report it to the police, However if a warrant was served by the Police (Internal Affairs where I am) I would provide a copy of the invoice, the check and customer address and would release the Tech on pay to allow him to testify if needed.

Taxes pays for Professionals to find and prosercute these people.

Before you Jump on your high horse - When a car goes past you at 60 Mph in a 55 area do you call the police?

When you see some one drunk and sitting in the gutter do you call the police?

When you get spam email about a new russian teen site do you call the police?

I employ techs to fix computers - Not to make moral, ethical and legal judgments and then take actions on those judgments. If you don't you don't like a customer / data / the enviroment that task puts you in just move on."


__________________

[Rojacks]

Originally posted by Ya_know
That is funny. Objectionable material prevented the repairing of your PC...

Anyway, I would think that as a system builder/service provider you would want to take a more active role in this. As someone stated, he would take what he found to his boss, (you), and you stated that you would turn the PC over to the owner untouched. That isn't exactly appropriate.

But then neither is scanning a PC for what could be deemed as personal and confidential information either. If you service PC's for small companies that don't have IT departments, than they deserve the secure feeling knowing that any information on their PC while in service will remain confidential and in tact.

Kiddie porn is not a grey area however. If you are uncertain as to whether the individual authored this stuff, or if he just found it posted on the Internet, it shouldn't matter. The police can make that assessment, and track down the source of the pictures on their own. But without your help, the stuff will continue to occur unchecked.

Did you ever see the movie a time to kill. I wish to provoke the same thought, but not the race card: What if the child turned out to be one of your own, and he/she never told you about it because they were ashamed or scared. Let's say it wasn't your store, but someone else’s. How would you want that storeowner to handle the situation?

The target for any action needs to be the source, If you find your kids smoking Pot do you hand them over to the police? Who are you angry at? Them?, the pusher? Peer Pressure? THe Major Dealer? The grower?

The action needs to be the source - Hit the grower hard, end of problem.

In the Pervert side the internet has made it easy for these people to distribute this stuff and easy for the end consumer to find the stuff. Without the Internet many people would not have this material.

If the person cannot / Hide / remove or cover their tracks they will be an easy target for the police to catch, fireup something like cyberpredator at the ISP and set a rule to grab any IP traffic to known hotspots - pop out a log with Userid and what they just downloaded. - BUSTed bigtime.

THis does NOT fix the problem, again it is the source you need to target but aslong as some countrys drag there heels over catching these people you will have this material freely avalible.

It comes down to intent - Is the person with the pedophile material going to act on it and molest a minor?

A recient case in NZ had a man convicted of distributing pedophile material via the internet - one crowd _SCREAMED_ for his blood. He was found guilty and given 6 months Periodic detention - supervison for 2 years and a Fine. No jail time.
The crowd was out raged, But the court said, Nothing he had done showed that he intended to move to another level and although he had profitted from selling this material - he could only sell it because it came from a source and there was demand for it - He was just a link in a chain and thus was punished so.

Oh on a side note - The Three most objectional systems refered to me, two were owned by woman and had the most degrading / perverted material on them. The last was owned by a young man and had a nazi / gothic / satanic theme with a collection of images of persons dead / dying / dimembered

Now I strongly suspect that the young mans system NONE of the pictures were illegal. How would you act in this case?

[Spawn_X]

a couple things...
first off, what is child porn?
anybody under 18 = child porn? that i would disagree with.
however 10 year old kiddy porn, yeah - its sick.

i have a different view on kiddy porn that i know most here will disagree with (no i do not view child porn, but tried to seeit from a diff perspective)...

i think being turned on by that is understandable, i believe its not something we can control.

HOWEVER - raping little kids and taking pictures is downright sick and disgusting.

imo whoever gets ya off - fine, as long as its not harming others.

one way to look at it is this.. i enjoy violent pictures - accidents, murders, homicides, executions. I also like watching people beat the crap out of each other. Both are illegal like child porn. i do not get horny off it, but i simply find it interesting.

why am i not prosecuted for that? the acts that i am watching are illegal, just as in kiddy porn.

yes, you can say "watching it promotes distribution/creation of new content", but you can say the same about a lot of things. "Driving an SUV promotes terrorism" for example.

if i was the tech, i would take the guy outside, tell him that if he IS into that sort of thing, keep it f000ing private and don't let nobody else know about it. then would give him the computer back and tell him to take his business elsewhere.

i'm expecting to get flamed for my opinion, but i believe i phrased it right and am hoping people will respond accordingly.

p.s. like i said earlier, no, i am not no kiddy porn fan, however that's just my opinion on it..

[Rojacks]

Originally posted by ConanTroutman
I have been confronted with this situation and I called the police. They told me I can be prosecuted if I don't turn them in (not that it would have ever come about) something like negligence. Just like if you are a Dr. and pass an accident if there are no EMS people on the scene. We all have moral obligations as law abiding US Citizens. Ever heard of a citizens arrest?

Speeding is not a felony. Molesting minors is not a misdemeanor.

I also own a computer shop, I don't want business from people that put me in these situations. I also want people that do crap like this to know that they WILL BE CAUGHT. I would expect that if the more decent customers we have will appreciate knowing that we don't turn on the blinders to this situation. If they do this sort of thing, they have a choice to (try) to hide it from us or fix the damn thing themselves. Computer techs are not policemen but hopefully they are human. Taxes pay for professionals to prosecute these guys true, but how do they get caught? wait until the FBI sets up a sting operation? or when they find kids remains out in the forest behind thier house? Why not get these guys the help they need (castration) before they harm someone? If no one in the world needed a computer would your computer business stay afloat? If there were no one to download kiddie porn would there be kiddie porn websites? (impossibility, obviously -just think about it). We don't snoop through peoples hard drives, we don't have time for that. But if it's obvious and you don't do anything about it, you are contributing to the problem, and quite possibly breaking the law yourself. Be a man or least human.

"Ok I own a small computer company and the policy that I use is simple. "The technician is NOT a policeman". If a Tech brings an Issue to me I will return the computer to the customer with a note stating "Fault not fixed, Objectional Material on Computer"

I do not report it to the police, However if a warrant was served by the Police (Internal Affairs where I am) I would provide a copy of the invoice, the check and customer address and would release the Tech on pay to allow him to testify if needed.

Taxes pays for Professionals to find and prosercute these people.

Before you Jump on your high horse - When a car goes past you at 60 Mph in a 55 area do you call the police?

When you see some one drunk and sitting in the gutter do you call the police?

When you get spam email about a new russian teen site do you call the police?

I employ techs to fix computers - Not to make moral, ethical and legal judgments and then take actions on those judgments. If you don't you don't like a customer / data / the enviroment that task puts you in just move on."


__________________ [/B][/QUOTE]

[Rojacks]

Originally posted by ConanTroutman
I have been confronted with this situation and I called the police. They told me I can be prosecuted if I don't turn them in (not that it would have ever come about) something like negligence. Just like if you are a Dr. and pass an accident if there are no EMS people on the scene. We all have moral obligations as law abiding US Citizens. Ever heard of a citizens arrest?

Speeding is not a felony. Molesting minors is not a misdemeanor.

I also own a computer shop, I don't want business from people that put me in these situations. I also want people that do crap like this to know that they WILL BE CAUGHT. I would expect that if the more decent customers we have will appreciate knowing that we don't turn on the blinders to this situation. If they do this sort of thing, they have a choice to (try) to hide it from us or fix the damn thing themselves. Computer techs are not policemen but hopefully they are human. Taxes pay for professionals to prosecute these guys true, but how do they get caught? wait until the FBI sets up a sting operation? or when they find kids remains out in the forest behind thier house? Why not get these guys the help they need (castration) before they harm someone? If no one in the world needed a computer would your computer business stay afloat? If there were no one to download kiddie porn would there be kiddie porn websites? (impossibility, obviously -just think about it). We don't snoop through peoples hard drives, we don't have time for that. But if it's obvious and you don't do anything about it, you are contributing to the problem, and quite possibly breaking the law yourself. Be a man or least human.

You are in the US and have a very complex legal system based on hodgepodge of Ideas, It obviously has some good points and it has some really bad points.

In NZ all crimes are Felonys under your system, Speeding here can be punished with upto 2 years in prison. (Or as little as a $80 fine that records no demerit points)

I do not want the type of customer either, But My Company statement includes "Your Privacy is our Top Priority" (I know my bank data is VERY private to me as it is to most of my clients - I am working on revising my terms at the moment)

Again also I do not have the abilty to withstand a lawsuite for wrongful accusation, more so it is likely that even if the person was found guilty I could still have a civil lawsuite taken against me and even if I win the costs and time would put me under and the Techs would be out of work!

I see this part "I also want people that do crap like this to know that they WILL BE CAUGHT" that seems to say that you have decided the the person with this on the computer is an Active Pedophile, I myself cannot make that judgement based on pictures on a computer and I will NOT place my staff in a position where they must make this Judgment.

Active Pedophiles must be stopped - I agree 100%
People who have pedophilia on their computers are ALWAYS Active Pedophiles - That I have trouble accepting.

I leave it to the professionals to sort out, and by the way they are VERY successful at this - You just don't see it publisied due to protecting the victims and this type of enquiry.

Another issue is the ISP one, what role does the ISP play? Accessory both Before and After fact. Joe or Jane Pervert got this material via the Internet how? The ISP is Proffiting from the material, Indirectly but there is linkage here.

Should the ISP be required by Law to monitor for this data and report it?

Civil Rights Anybody? - Unfortunately laws to protect the innocent also protect the guilty and there is little that can be done.

[Orangeman]

Originally posted by Rojacks
...
The last was owned by a young man and had a nazi / gothic / satanic theme with a collection of images of persons dead / dying / dimembered...
How would you act in this case?

Personally if it were me I would shut off my civil libertarian side and call the cops, whether having Nazi material was legal or not. That cr@p is just as bad as child porn.

People who do that sort of thing also have to be responsible for their behavior. If they're leaving it open on their hard drive for anyone to see then they have to assume the risk they are taking by not putting it on floppies.