pocket knife - yay or nay?

[rgharper]

I carry one of these:

http://www.leatherman.com/products/t...ii/default.asp

In one of these:

http://www.swissarmy.com/webstore/mo...7&category=130

And wear these:

http://www.swissarmy.com/webstore/mo...26&category=29

(Can't find the sunglasses on their site anymore but I do have a a pair of Swiss Army glasses as well.)

[jaeger]

somewhere's you shouldn't carry a knife !?! ... who do you think you are Rambo ? HERE - quite rightly too, in my opinion - you'd be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon !

This is an interesting concept. By merely possessing the knife, he is now an aggressive ‘Rambo’ that poses a direct threat to those around him. Never mind the fact that obviously no one will know about this knife (due to those intelligent laws of yours that make sure the victim is always poorly armed, if armed at all) except in the most dire of consequences and how its presence is of a defensive nature. How can he be acting aggressively if no one knows?

Carrying a pocket knife or multi-purpose knife for 'something useful' is one thing .. but this seems to have a different purpose entirely .... mind you the rest of the world is still puzzled by your 'consitutional' right to bear arms ...

Yawn. I must have missed that bit where every other government on the planet has disarmed its citizens. Do you mind supplying me with a date or collection of such of the implementation of such laws? That truly was massive event that I completely missed while striving towards my ultimate goal of being the perfect knuckle-dragging Yank.

Nope ... yanks who think its some God given right don't get it ...

I have no concept of a god in my desire to carry reasonable defense. It is pure instinct. Self-defense is a fact of nature. I am small enough to more than likely be completely outclassed physically by anyone that decides I have something they want, be it my property, my life, or the lives of those around me. A concealed, and especially an openly carried, weapon can potentially prevent me from being a victim of a crime.

Ok then ... so I have a grenade in my pocket? You still think I should be allowed that for 'protection' ?... a machine gun? maybe some anthrax ? Nerve agent? ... mini A-bomb ? ...

I won’t even bother myself. You know this line of reasoning is a logical fallacy and nothing I can say or do will make you admit it.

'the right to meet life threatening aggression with deadly response' ... isn't carring a gun in the first place life threatening aggression ??

So you are saying the mere possession of a firearm is aggression. Nifty concept. My neighbor has taken up bodybuilding and martial arts so he is obviously planning on raiding my home and killing me. Or not. Owning a firearm doesn’t automatically make you an aggressive Neanderthal anymore than not owning one makes you an enlightened peacemaker. You seem to have serious issues differentiating cause and effect.

So whether the consitution confirmed your supposed right or granted it you seem to perpetuating what you want to get rid of ....

You equate banning firearm ownership with an end to aggression. Once again, research cause and effect. Aggressive people will be aggressive whether they have to use a gun or a brick. Further, the people that you should actually worry about having weapons are criminals anyways. Will they magically begin respecting society’s laws when all weapons are banned or did you just assure that they have one less problem to worry about, namely victims engaging in self defense?

P.S. Actually ... starting anything with actually will only actually annoy!

You also should look up irony. Berating the grammar of another when your typing is nothing short of atrocious is very nearly comedy.

[Outcoded]

Originally posted by jaeger
This is an interesting concept. By merely possessing the knife, he is now an aggressive ‘Rambo’ that poses a direct threat to those around him.

Hehe - have we met?

Actually, I've been attacked on several occassions on a one-one or two-on-one basis and effectivly beaten the piss out of however started it without a knife. The reason I carry something now is around two years ago, a robber came into the shop where I was working and put a knife in the face of the old lass on the till. I was standing behind her and pulled her back, taking a deep cut to the arm in the process, I then removed the knife from his possession, taking a cut to my hand in the process, and breaking his wrist. Had I had a knife to hand, I have the relevant skill to have disarmed him in under a second without posing a risk to me, or the people around us.

Incidently, interesting you mention size Jaeger - a friend of mine if five foot nothing and female, she put a rather large mugger in hospital for two days.

Openly carried weapons are very easy to take off people. It is also worth bearing in mind that any weapon you pull can be used against you. Case study, a guy in a club near here pulled an asp (extending baton) on a bouncer not long ago, and ended up with a broken hand inflicted by the weapon, and very nearly got it shoved up his arse.

[confus-ed]

Ye Gods .... while I was busy working you have been ripping my replies to bits ...

Without going into too much detail ( I really feel it'll be fruitless !) ... I just think its a sad reflection on 'society' that you feel the need to protect yourself in this way ...

We have law (and its upholders ... courts, police & I suppose armed forces) to protect everyone from aggressors ... Isn't that the point of civilisation ???

I don't need a knife to beat the crap out of anyone or a gun or any other kind of weapon , but then again I accept the fact that its wrong in the first place !!!

Just to reply to one direct bit (because you are American ... sorry outcoded - get a flag !)
Yawn. I must have missed that bit where every other government on the planet has disarmed its citizens. Do you mind supplying me with a date or collection of such of the implementation of such laws? " Originally posted by jaeger

Hmmm just what are you (we) up to in Iraq right now ... removing weapons from citizens who use the exact same arguements as you ... to restore order !

[Outcoded]

Agreed.

[In The Wind]

Well, it is interesting that I find myself in agreement with Confus-ed on the reason I carry a knife. I use it as a tool throughout the day, many times. It is not on my person for the purpose of defending myself from attackers. For that matter, if just for defense, a T-ball bat would be a better choice. I don't carry one of those either. I have advised people in the past to not carry a defense weapon, on the basis that it will give you a false sense of security, in reality if you are not expert in it's use, it will most likley be removed from you and used against you, in the event of an attack. The best defensive weapon you possess is your brain, both from a proactive and reactive stance.

Confus-ed, you have an interesting knack for picking a particular "color" and painting the entire world in it. Life is more dynamic than that.

Regarding the comment on the legal system being our protector, the USA Supreme Court has stated that the police have no duty or responsibility to "protect" us from the commission of a crime. They are there to deal with the effects of crime, after it has been committed. For a proactive defensable position, we are on our own. See comment above regarding brain.

[confus-ed]

I of course couldn't paint the whole world in any particular 'color' ... here it would be colour ... but what should I expect ? .... Americans to be able to spell ? ... You may care to note 'Devil's advocate' is my particular speciality

Joking aside ... this bit "the USA Supreme Court has stated that the police have no duty or responsibility to "protect" us from the commission of a crime. They are there to deal with the effects of crime, after it has been committed. For a proactive defensable position, we are on our own."

That is seriously disturbing & if true explains a great deal of the difference between what I perceive is the rest of the World's view & that of America's ....

This of course takes on even more significance when you remember that a certain George Jnr's entire line on Iraq was to protect his citizenship from 'immediate & present danger' ...

But hey, this is a discussion on do you own a pocket knife ? ... not world politics !

[jaeger]

Originally posted by Outcoded


Incidently, interesting you mention size Jaeger - a friend of mine if five foot nothing and female, she put a rather large mugger in hospital for two days.

Openly carried weapons are very easy to take off people. It is also worth bearing in mind that any weapon you pull can be used against you. Case study, a guy in a club near here pulled an asp (extending baton) on a bouncer not long ago, and ended up with a broken hand inflicted by the weapon, and very nearly got it shoved up his arse.

As for the female friend, being able to defend yourself unarmed is nice but I prefer stacking the deck in my favor whenever possible.

That openly carried weapons bit was meant in terms of everyone capable of handling a weapon carrying one and being intelligent enough not to get into a situation where they can't defend themself. I personally believe a well-armed and capable citizenship is the best way to cut back on crime. I agree that a knife is a poor weapon to carry if you want to defend yourself. The guy who took on the bouncer is kind of stacking the deck for the concept of any self defense weapon being as dangerous to its owner as anyone else. Bouncers tend to be bigger than hell, know how to fight effectively unarmed, and are paid to be on the lookout for nutters.

Bah. Quoting line for line is aggravating.

Confused, our thoughts on this are different on a fundamental level. You hold the weapon as being immoral/evil. I hold the weapon as inanimate and the aggression as being immoral, my basic reasoning being that a weapon by itself will do nothing while an aggressive person without a weapon will still cause problems.

Civilization hasn't figured out completely protecting its law abiding citizens from the criminals in a few thousand years. I have no delusion it will be figured out in my lifetime.

Double check your facts on Iraq. What I've read and heard is that Allied forces are confiscating heavy and assault weapons while allowing Iraqi's to keep small arms in their homes.

The clarification of the role police have is more of a CYA tactic than anything else. With this as their responsibility, they can go on protecting citizens without having to worry about a lawsuit if they can't show up at a crime for some reason.

And quit throwing out your opinion of the view of the rest of the world. You should have figured out by now that you aren't even sure of the views of your fellow Brit.

[In The Wind]

Confus-ed, in a discussion of a person and thier rights and responsibilities, you extend the thought to international relationships. Hence the thought of picking a color and painting the world with it. As if my decision to carry a blade has anything to do with GWB going to war with SH? To broad a brushstroke for my likeing. BTW, I had very big doubts about that issue myself, but that would be another thread, not to be painted with this same brush, eh?

Don't worry, the USA is fast catching up with the rest of the world. I used to take my rifle to school on the school bus, so that I could go hunting on the way home after school. Today I would be arrested for that. See how much better we are today?!?

[Six Eyed Smily]

after reading this thread, i can honestly say that i have never been happier that i am living in the uk NOT america!

a swiss army/ leatherman kinda thing is fine by me, i have one myself, although i dont take it around with me, but soem of the knives shown have no, and i do repeat NO innocent useage.
however short of funds i may be, i would consider it beneath me to mug an old granny at swordpoint

[confus-ed]

Ok .... I'll sum it all up quicky ...

Guns/knives/bombs etc don't kill folks ... people kill people ... I'm just saying if you don't all run around armed the likelyhood goes down quite a bit !!

But yeah I have a leatherman knife ... but to fix things with ... not for stabbing anyone .... !

[delmer_1]

i never go anywhere without my swiss army knife.

Wenger Tradesman


it is usually enough to handle what i come accross, but sometimes you just need more. So I am saving up for one of these:

Victorinox Swiss Champ XLT



50 features. probably more than what i need, but I want it so badly.

[drewmaztech]

I have a regular took kit here at work. I don't think a pocket knife works well in the corporate environment I'm in.
I do have a HUGE Swiss Army Knife I like to keep in my car. It's a lot like the one photo above.

Someone forgot it in my office a long time ago and I just laid claim to it. I've had it for 8 years now. Saved me in a pinch several times.

[Necrometal]

I always have my knife on me.....When I started here about 3 weeks ago our MIS head gave me greif over it....but its come in handy every single day so far and he has laid off giving me grief about it.

PLus, I work in the middle of downtown here. Need something on my person.

[Outcoded]

Originally posted by jaeger
As for the female friend, being able to defend yourself unarmed is nice but I prefer stacking the deck in my favor whenever possible.

That openly carried weapons bit was meant in terms of everyone capable of handling a weapon carrying one and being intelligent enough not to get into a situation where they can't defend themself. I personally believe a well-armed and capable citizenship is the best way to cut back on crime. I agree that a knife is a poor weapon to carry if you want to defend yourself. The guy who took on the bouncer is kind of stacking the deck for the concept of any self defense weapon being as dangerous to its owner as anyone else. Bouncers tend to be bigger than hell, know how to fight effectively unarmed, and are paid to be on the lookout for nutters.

Incidently, when I taught her how to look after herself, I made a concious decision not to teach her to use a knife. I wasn't sure she would be able to defend herself as well as she did, if her and her assailant were both unarmed, then the worst she would probably get is knocked about a bit, if she pulled a knife and it was taken off her, that could have been a different story. I also didn't want to see her done for possession of a weapon or assault/murder with a weapon.

What the best weapon is is a matter of circumstance, who attacks you, how many, what training you have, local laws. I know I can beat the living piss out of someone who attacks me whether I'm armed or not, the methods I use have a bias towards anything but a firearm (though I can handle one of these particularly well), personal preference is also a major factor.