Reports that Saddam Hussain captured

[Ya_know]

Something else to consider (to everybody)...do you really think that the region emir's, prince's, sultan's, mullah's and king's are happy about a full fledged democracy being set up in their back yard? Things could get mighty interesting in the next several years. Yes we do live in interesting times.

The reality of that is...they will not be at risk of losing their kingdoms to US invasion as long as they are fair and just with their people. Their people can all be in poverty, as long as they are not being executed, tortured, or otherwise atrociously mistreated for crimes they have not committed. That is the greatest point to be made about the invasion of Iraq, and final conquer of Sadam and his sons...The world is definitely watching and learning.

And I agree with your point, it would have been nice if we had a better plan for the endgame. However, invasions are like a tide, once you commit, you can’t put things on hold or you may eventually give away your hand. As it was we waited longer than we should.

Lastly, question to you Major, we couldn’t get 100% accurate intel out of the country before the war, how could we possibly devise endgame strategies without seizing the country first…? We had no solid communications with alternate political parties within the country that would take over once the dictator was gone.

[ilovetheusers]

Hi there,

*lol* The Evil Santa! *lol* Anyways, one down, one to go.

Ju Leon...

Your words inspire my photoshop efforts.

[Ya_know]

Fantastic job! Expect to see that one making the rounds on the Internet!...

[ilovetheusers]

Fantastic job! Expect to see that one making the rounds on the Internet!...

We aims to please.

[Major Kong]

The reality of that is...they will not be at risk of losing their kingdoms to US invasion as long as they are fair and just with their people. Their people can all be in poverty, as long as they are not being executed, tortured, or otherwise atrociously mistreated for crimes they have not committed. That is the greatest point to be made about the invasion of Iraq, and final conquer of Sadam and his sons...The world is definitely watching and learning.

And I agree with your point, it would have been nice if we had a better plan for the endgame. However, invasions are like a tide, once you commit, you can’t put things on hold or you may eventually give away your hand. As it was we waited longer than we should.

Lastly, question to you Major, we couldn’t get 100% accurate intel out of the country before the war, how could we possibly devise endgame strategies without seizing the country first…? We had no solid communications with alternate political parties within the country that would take over once the dictator was gone.

Aye...but accurate intel is not an issue here. What is at issue is from a historical perspective of a region that does not fully understand and grasp the concept of democracy. That perspective is a given and has been much in evidence since the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI. Iraq (along with Egypt) is looked at by the Arab World as a shining example of history and leadership, the "Cradle of Civilization". The whole region is steeped in autocracy and/or theocracy. This wasn't some big secret that we didn't know. Every school child who has taken world government should know this. By the end of WWII the US had already committed to the rebuilding of Western Europe and Japan. My concern was that the only thing I had heard was that a "Democratic" style government would be placed in Baghdad. I mean shoot we've been working at it since the 1790's and it's still a work in progress, but we think that we can possibly do it in a few years in a place that has never had it? Ain't going to happen overnight, or in 1 or 2 years. Like I said the autocratic and theocratic leaders of the region are keeping a close hesitant eye on Mesopotamia right now. I've got a very, very good friend who is a Coptic Christian from Egypt. I have know him since 1977. He has stated on many occasions that the mere mention of Democracy to most leaders in the Middle East scares the hades out of them. Don't get me wrong I hope our "experiment" in Iraq is successful, not only for the US and our allied, but for the Iraqi people. It's just that as of right now it's sorta like the dog that finally catches the car...now what the h3!! do you do with it?
To further comment as to your quote of:

The reality of that is...they will not be at risk of losing their kingdoms to US invasion as long as they are fair and just with their people.

Well that's a non sequitur. There are already countries in the region that are as brutal (if not more so) than Iraq. Iran (though not Arab), Syria, Sudan, Libya, Algeria, and yes even Turkey (also not Arab, but the Kurd's are as wary of the Turks as they were of Saddam) haven't felt the risk (though Libya has been a target in the past and Syria right now is probably not comfortable) of losing their countries.

[gazzak]

Your words inspire my photoshop efforts.

Made my day, thankyou!

[gazzak]

Hey, there's someone with even more time on their hands!!

[ilovetheusers]

Made my day, thankyou!

No prob. Less funny version:

[silencio]

WASHINGTON (AP) - The CIA was aware that the Soviet Union found out the date of the failed U.S.-backed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba more than a week before it took place, but went ahead with the operation anyway, newly declassified intelligence documents show.

Previously released Soviet documents indicated that Moscow had learned some details of the operation ahead of time, but the report from the Taylor Commission shows for the first time that the CIA knew about the leak and proceeded with the invasion, said Peter Kornbluh, a senior analyst with the nonprofit National Security Archive.

Portions of the Taylor Commission report had been released in 1977 and 1986. The latest release, which shows newly declassified information, was supposed to be made public in 1996, but was only released recently following a bureaucratic snafu.

``There was some indication that the Soviets somewhere around the 9th (of April) had gotten the date of the 17th,'' Jacob Esterline, the CIA operations official who headed the task force responsible for coordinating the invasion, said during a May 1951 meeting.

``But there was no indication at any time that they had any idea where the operation was going to take place,'' Esterline added.

It is unknown exactly how the Soviets found out, but Esterline said it was not from the Cuban exiles since the exiles were not briefed on when the invasion would take place until April 12.

Kornbluh said there also was no indication that the CIA informed President Kennedy of the leak before the invasion took place.

The documents show that CIA director Allen W. Dulles, three weeks after the failed operation, questioned the agency's role in future paramilitary operations.

``I'm the first to recognize that I don't think that the CIA should run paramilitary operations of the type in Cuba,'' Dulles told the commission. He added that ``the Cuban operation has had a very serious effect on all our work'' and ``I think we should limit ourselves more to secret intelligence collection and operations of the nonmilitary category.''

According to Kornbluh, the report also shows that CIA official Frank Egan, who was in charge of the training camps in Guatemala, told the commission Castro had infiltrated four double agents into the camp.

Although CIA officials limited mail going into and out of the camp in the weeks leading up the official, Egan said the double agents apparently got information out to Castro. [justify]The Taylor Commission report is the second government report made public on the Bay of Pigs. Kornbluh said he filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the third document, by a CIA historian, but it has yet to be released.
[/justify]

END

Associated Press
April 29, 2000