Messed up, yo

[thorian]

i must be a lucky one who has actually met a real preacher, or even for that matter, some real christians. people who care more for you than they do themselves, who want your well-being above anything else, and who condone the sin without condoning the sinner. people who you can trust to be there for you, at their own loss sometimes. selfless, giving, caring individuals that actually give you hope in humanity. all i can say is, when we judge everyone by a few, or even many's actions, then all your saying is that all black men are lazy because you actually worked with one that was. those same "preachers" you mention would get the same treatment as the scribes and doctors of the law back in Jesus' day, they would still be reprimanded for doing a really bad job of representing God.

Yeah But the Lutheran Church says I can’t go to heaven anymore because I was excommunicated as a Heretic, Only because I spoke out against the excommunication of the president because he prayed with Non Lutherans at the WTC site.

So in the corrupt list we have the Jerry Fallwell, the 700 club, the Religious right (they hate them queers, When Jesus supposedly loves everyone equally) St Louis Archdiocese (they are trying to seize the assets of the Cities oldest catholic church and are trying to close it when it was the only one in the system that wasn’t taking their money. The *** raping priests, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (see above) Abusive Parochial schoolteachers. It takes 8 years of Lutheran grade school and 2 years of catholic High school and 2 years of Pentecostal church to be this fed up and bitter.

So with the above

I have concluded that that the Church and the Christian Faith have been bastardized, by those that saw it as a way to make money. I have since renounced the ways of the corrupt desert religion and am following the tribal beliefs of my ancestors. And I am a much happier person for it.

If I’m wrong I am fully prepared to face the consequences. Because in Hebrew the concept of hell meant to live with out God, I have already experienced Godlessness and that was in his
Church.


Edit forgot the disclaimer. This is only how I feel, If you find some confort in christianity good for you I wish you all the best.

Everyone wants to be happy. and I dont want to be converted back to the religion that kicked me out.

[Stalemate]

Please don't drag me into any grand departure scheme you may have Cleetus, if this is the case.

[PuterGeekGirl]

Can't we all just get along?!?!?

Oh wait, I've asked that before and it never seems to happen.....Scratch that...

[El_Squid]

Wait, no, now I am confused, so are you saying that God does not live in all of us?

There is nothing wrong with the Catholics as christians, but in the church itself we find the faults. The world and religion built of man, not of true faith.

Is that not true of all organized religions, or organized anything, for that matter? As a returned-to-the-fold Catholic it amazes me how often the Catholic church is demonized and ridiculed by the rest of the Christian and non-Christian world.

I spend much of my time discussing politics, religion, etc. with my college-age boys and their friends (mostly Goths, budding Revolutionaries and "artistes"), who are amazed that a conservative, Catholic, Hispanic male does not necessarily follow the image/stereotype created by American society and its media. They are unaware of simple facts, like the Pope openly accepting the Theory of Evolution, as a valid Theory, not in opposition to Christian tenets, while his peers in the rest of "enlightened" Christianity can not, and will not.

Having an open mind and the ability to change it, while not compromising one's core values, is not restricted to any particular subset of humanity. Neither is having the ability to accept and respect the validity of different points of view, without renouncing one's own beliefs. The key is the ability to express one's opinions, to attest to one's beliefs, without attacking or ridiculing anyone else's, i. e. true self-confidence.

Have you thought of trying the career on for size first, like volunteering to teach a Sunday school class, in the religion of your preference? Perhaps getting involved in some of the Bible studies, or other classes, offered by so many different religions? You may find yourself liking the vocation.

[Cleetus]

Is that not true of all organized religions, or organized anything, for that matter? As a returned-to-the-fold Catholic it amazes me how often the Catholic church is demonized and ridiculed by the rest of the Christian and non-Christian world.

I spend much of my time discussing politics, religion, etc. with my college-age boys and their friends (mostly Goths, budding Revolutionaries and "artistes"), who are amazed that a conservative, Catholic, Hispanic male does not necessarily follow the image/stereotype created by American society and its media. They are unaware of simple facts, like the Pope openly accepting the Theory of Evolution, as a valid Theory, not in opposition to Christian tenets, while his peers in the rest of "enlightened" Christianity can not, and will not.

Having an open mind and the ability to change it, while not compromising one's core values, is not restricted to any particular subset of humanity. Neither is having the ability to accept and respect the validity of different points of view, without renouncing one's own beliefs. The key is the ability to express one's opinions, to attest to one's beliefs, without attacking or ridiculing anyone else's, i. e. true self-confidence.

Have you thought of trying the career on for size first, like volunteering to teach a Sunday school class, in the religion of your preference? Perhaps getting involved in some of the Bible studies, or other classes, offered by so many different religions? You may find yourself liking the vocation.

HOnestly, my "beliefs" of catholics has been shaken as of lately. Ol' FCW has been going to classes on the bible and times with her church(she is catholic) and we have discussed what they have been learning. Very fascinating how they actually do talk about holes in the bible and other topics that one wouldn't think that catholics would talk about.

I have no problem saying that I don't know everything, or anywhere close. I will continue to listen to all, if I question or mock, doesn't mean I don't listen or respect. That is only my defenses and it is who I am.

[Cleetus]

The Ignore ban is lifted for now.

Many people are telling me to forget about this and to just completely and truly ignore you - but I'll risk it this once.


I said I did not want to associate with you and had concluded it was pointless to argue with you, as you had a knack for interpreting events in a manner that is highly creative. I also said I had no intention of allowing your behaviour towards me to go on, nor to pretend everything was cool and without consequence this time.

I have not mocked anyone who does not share my beliefs and I dare you to find an instance where I did so. If you do, I'll apologize publicly. If you don't, I'll expect the same.

One day you'll find out that "being real" doesn't equate with "being right".

Good, maybe we can actually have discussions again. Never said I was "right", always preached that I am being me though. I do know the difference, I don't back down on who I am, but I read everything I see and have often had my eyes open and even ideas changed by discussions, even with people whose ideas I absolutly despise. I am a jerk and abrasive, but also am kind and considerate, you just got to wade through the bs(but like I said, that is the real Lee)

You say I don't care, not willing to sacrifice, and unable to feel. I pity this horrid form of communication, as most people say I am the total opposite. I can't even begin to count the amount of times I have sacrificed my personal good to speak up for the whole. I withstood the ****storm, only to appear on the other side stronger when all finally came back and said that I was actually right. It may not be the prettiest method, or the sanest on my part, but it is who I am. At 29, I think I know who I am, the rest is only trying to perfect it and to live this one life I have to the fullest.

You want to put me back on ignore, fine, so be it. I won't ever put anyone on ignore. Hate, love, ridicule whatever, there is good in everyone and there is always some lesson to be learned. I won't turn my eyes, I won't bury my head, I will walk with my head high and take whatever may come my way. And you can bet my fine WD ladies' behinds that I will dish it right back out when any wall is put up.

[El_Squid]

HOnestly, my "beliefs" of catholics has been shaken as of lately. Ol' FCW has been going to classes on the bible and times with her church(she is catholic) and we have discussed what they have been learning. Very fascinating how they actually do talk about holes in the bible and other topics that one wouldn't think that catholics would talk about.

I have no problem saying that I don't know everything, or anywhere close. I will continue to listen to all, if I question or mock, doesn't mean I don't listen or respect. That is only my defenses and it is who I am.

No need for defenses. Best of luck to you in your explorations of the religious landscape. It is a worthy quest.

I imagine you are referring to the RCIA classes which are offered by the Catholic Church. Most people are unaware of how "pragmatic" and realistic Catholics are about Christianity, the Bible and religion in general. I was, and I was baptized Catholic! It wasn't until I returned to my Catholic roots and started to actually study what that meant, that I realized it was not a bad thing.

[Stalemate]

Good, maybe we can actually have discussions again...

I'm afraid that time has passed when you started attributing me with slander towards others you have yet to prove or apologize for.

But let's see...

Never said I was "right", always preached that I am being me though. I do know the difference, I don't back down on who I am, but I read everything I see and have often had my eyes open and even ideas changed by discussions, even with people whose ideas I absolutly despise. I am a jerk and abrasive, but also am kind and considerate, you just got to wade through the bs(but like I said, that is the real Lee)...

No comment.

This then becomes a contest of egos where no one can have the upper hand or even come to an agreement, which I think is what we're now faced with.

I've spoken about such behaviour before and fail to see how it could be seen as something to be proud of. I guess we'll have to disagree about that and drop the subject.

May I remind you that I started ignoring you once you directly blamed my belief system for what you thought was wrong in the USA in the Politicos section? That appalling outburst was quite an eye-opener.

You say I don't care, not willing to sacrifice, and unable to feel....

Did I truly say this? That you were like that?

Or is it more likely that those were comments about how you like to present yourself in the forums?

I try to be very careful in how I word things.

You want to put me back on ignore, fine, so be it. I won't ever put anyone on ignore. Hate, love, ridicule whatever, there is good in everyone and there is always some lesson to be learned. I won't turn my eyes, I won't bury my head, I will walk with my head high and take whatever may come my way. And you can bet my fine WD ladies' behinds that I will dish it right back out when any wall is put up.

And so I trust you'll display the same respect to anyone who does exactly the same thing by not slandering their reputation when they do so.

This is one person who is not interested in backing down simply for the sake of flattering your ego or making you feel better about a conflict.


One of the resolutions I thought would work was to mutually ignore each other. That doesn't have to be slapping each other's name on the Ignore list, but it does mean that I will not go out of my way to goad you into some nonsense just to see how you'll react.

[Cleetus]

A) You called me a sociopath, those are symptoms of sociopaths, pretty straight forward right there

You seem to have misinterpreted why you're on my Ignore List Cleetus.

Allow me to explain briefly.


Your "walk" does not follow your "talk".

I think you are a fake, petty, egocentric human being who uses bravado to muster up a facade on manliness, hoping not to be discovered for the weakness and helplessness inside but instead blaming others for whatever happens to you.

I sincerely believe that you are unaware that your attitude borders on the sociopathic at times.


I hope you fell better now, knowing that it had very little to do with your conduct during the thread deletion incidents, which was just a symptom - not the actual disease.

B) I blamed an entire religion that felt the need to persecute an entire segment of the population and lay them down as lesser human beings simply becuase they won't take the time to get to understand them. I have no problem with you feeling that homosexuality is wrong, but to persecute and to relegate them in such a fasion is pure hypocrasy, it is not religion, it is evil. How is my own weakness showing here, are you now saying I am a weak person for voicing my outrage at people who think this way.

C) Yes, I am proud of myself. I know I have faced up and beaten down systems and brought real change for everyone because of my sacrifices. I received nothing in return for many things I have done but public shame and private thanks. If you have never lived it, you have no idea. I don't expect you to understand the pride I have in myself.

D) This thread is about me, as I started it about me, getting a clue why I am talking like this in this thread. It is my own place for me. You come at me in my thread, and I will defend myself. I am all about me here, ****ing get it genious.

E) You want someone who believes they have been mocked, well I am one. Be a man and apologize to me. You never did once, you only kept saying that I am not a true christian. If you can't come up and apologize to me, right here right now, why should I bother finding posts by Clam and others who you mocked as well.

[Cleetus]

G) Not once, not one time did I just come out and say I was no longer a friend with or never had respect for someone who challenged my beliefs, even with hatred. Look at me vs Linthade or some of the others in politico's. I still respect them, even when things get heated. And they have still had discussions with me, when things got heated and we were at polar opposites.

[Cleetus]

H)
And don't worry, there is still not one person here that I wouldn't by a beer for and sit down and really get to know. Heck, life is so much easier when you can exchange a couple of punches, wipe off the dust, buy a beer and laugh all about how stupid you can be all the while taking the time to leer at the fine ladies walkin on by.

[Stalemate]

This has been... interesting.

[Stalemate]

Final reply in here about this:


A) Yes, I did post that. It was in answer to yet another mention that you were on my ignore list because of the thread deletion incident. I see this got your attention when all the other, more polite times did not. I apologize for airing this out in public like that, even if I thought justified to do so.

B) I am not saying you are weak for voicing your opinion, I am saying you were wrong in accusing a specific group. A later state by state voting showed exactly that. Remember Major Kong's thread about it? Instead you chose to push it and make it personal.

C) I understand perfectly. I fight against it almost daily, as a matter of fact.

D) I get it. All about you. OK.

E) For me, a christian is one who believes and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. I was not insulting you when I said you weren't christian, as you yourself mentioned numerous times your disbelief in his divinity or his resurrection - or even the validity of the Bible. It's just a matter of interpreting the title then, as I fail to see how one could use the terme yet reject what defines it. I would truly like to hear what Clam himself would have to reply about this further accusation against me. Not to prove you wrong, but to see if - indeed - I'm turning into something I've always detested.

G) I understand.

H) Great. That's how I fell about arguments also.




Conclusion:

I need to think long and hard about what is happening here.

[ilovetheusers]

Can't we all just get along?!?!?

Oh wait, I've asked that before and it never seems to happen.....Scratch that...

That's a good question.



There's a new sheriff in town. No fightin, no cussin, no spittin unless it's funny. This ain't.