Certification v. Experience

[itnewbie]

I think both experience and certifications can be equally important depending on your individual circumstances – one compliments the other. Although experience will get the job nine out of ten times (so y’all with experience don’t really have a lot to worry about), the certs will get those of us that have limited experience an interview.

I went to one of those 8 month classes and now have my MCSE, CNA, and A+ certifications, but very little experience. I built the computer I’m on right now, I’m running NT, and networked my other computer to this one. After months of looking and numerous interviews, I recently secured a job as a Network Technician.

I don’t act like I know everything or thumb my nose at guys without certs. They are some of the people I go to for answers after I try to figure it out for myself. I remember what they tell me and use that information if a similar problem comes up again. It’s just anything else in the sense that what a person gets out of something depends on what they put into it. It all comes down to a person’s attitude, determination, and willingness to learn.

I wouldn’t want to be around an arrogant MCSE no more than I would want to be around an arrogant non-MCSE tech. Certifications can measure one’s experience, but are also an excellent way for new comers to break into the IT field. What do you think my chances would have been at getting a job in the IT field with very little experience and no certifications?

[Chevelle]

I'm the Netwark/Systems Administrator for a major .com/software company and I have a MCSE and a Master CNE working under me. I am the goto man when they can't get it done. I also have tons of experiance and no certs.

I believe the certs are important and have found I'm going to need to finish my MCSE and other certs to advance my career further than I am now.

[Cptnpook]

As a current out of work tech, I can tell you this much... out wouldn't be out of work still if I had Certifications. The experience I have is good, but every interview I go on wants certs.

-Also, on the topic of "paper certs" and the cornheads that own them.... I had an MCSE come work for the company I was with who could NOT tell me what a yellow exclamation point in Win9X device manager meant, or how to fix it. When finally directed to install a current driver to fix the conflict, he had no clue how to work with a self extracting executable DOS file. (it was SETUPEX.exe for Intels bus mastering) he'd double click...see something quick on the screen... double click it again... waiting for a windows installer. Needless to say, he had files extracted all over the place and still no clue what to do. And I'm the one having trouble finding a job!!!!!

[BarnesConsult]

I'll add my little comments to the thread. I have been working on computers since I was a pimply 14 year old (31 now). Write my own software, build my own computers, administer a small network for a smaller company. I've done everything from interface CNC machinery with an XT PC to migrating Novell 3.12 to Windows NT. I decided this year that I want to go to a larger place, and that experience probably wasn't enough. So I squandered about $10,000 to get MCSE + Internet certified and Cisco CCNE certified. I figured that I'd supplement my experience with all of the textbook stuff. I get calls from recruiters every day, but I've only gotton two interviews! I live near Pittsburgh PA. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but it seems like if you don't have the exact list of initials their asking for, they don't even want to talk to you. Some of these requirements lists read like the glossary from some of my (many) books.

I do agree with some of the other guys though. There are too many people with huge ego's from a few simple initals by their names, or even because of where they work.

Oh well, I'm done complaining...

[bullsnot]

Well I have no "job experiance" but I have been playing with pc's for around 6 years only doing minimal stuff cuss I can't afford the fun stuff. I built a small (4 pc) network at home to play with and basicaly did all I could with what little I can get my hands on to learn. Well try getting a tech job with that. So I have studied and passed my A+ Network+ and 5 of the 6 for my MCSE. Hopefully that will get me a job. My point is yeah experiance is way better but how do you get it when you have none. I will have my MCSE in less than a month, but I have far from a big head about it. I know I have a lot to learn, and as far as troubleshooting NT I learned very little, just as they say how its supposed to work, not what it does instead. ramble ramble ramble sorry but how else can someone with no experiance get some. Get your certs, get the entry level job and work from there. Thats my plan anyway hope it works.

[mikesorensen]

I disagree with AlienDyne. I am 20 years old....and a Systems Network Administrator for a collection agency. I built my first computer when I was probably 10. I do not have any MCSE or A+ training, only because I cannot afford the test for reasons of bills and not taking the time. But, I have worked at a government agency to build gigahertz memery boxes, and 3 computer stores that are very successful now. These stores in my local area are recommended and preferred over Best Buy, CompUSA, and so on. I got my foot in the door of this administrator position one day when the president and ceo of the company walked into my last computer store tech job. Currently, we have grown 60% in six months and we are continually growing. Upon taking several A+ and MCSE training tests and practice cdroms...I have gotten very high scores. So, do you really think experience is not as good as educated "textbook" knowledge. You know, sometimes common sense outweighs the standard textbook knowledge. I always see something new everyday happening with troubleshooting and networking. Half of the situations aren't even in the books or tests.
Also, think about the gentleman I replaced at this company...he was a 38 year old, asian man who was A+, MCSE, and had almost every manufacturer's certification known to man...but I had to redo, or fix A LOT of problems he had caused or not known about. He left to find a higher paying job....came back 2 months later asking for his job back. The CEO said, "Sorry, we already have an MIS director that we are content with"

[jhutto]

We had a MCSE apply for a bench job for extra income on weekends/evenings. We sat him down, and asked him to install a modem in a 6 month old Deskpro running NT4. (He is a MSCE in NT4)

2 hours later he has the modem in, and having problems with drivers.

3 hours after that it is working.

He didn't get the job. It was one of 4 that were all the same. The rest of us took maybe a hour to do the other 3 combined.

[A DoG NaMeD SpoT]

I've made the mistake once of hiring a 'fresh from his A+, ink still wet on the certificate' tech before. With all the mistakes we had to fix and the warranty work, I know better now. I did, however, hire someone else a few months later ina similar merit. He starts by saying that he has had his A+ for about a year, (oh boy, another A+ ****up) and he'd bee working with computers for 2 years prior to that (looking better) and that he knows that his A+ doesn't mean dick. (hehe Yer Hired!)

but one good thing, having the Experience AND the Certificates to back it do make for better pay in most situations.

-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==--==-= E=MC2
A DoG NaMeD SpoT

* Click your heels together three times "There's no place like DOS, There's no place like DOS, There's no place...."

[CobraTekMax]

If you want to make good money, then you need both. I've been screwing around with computers as long as I can remember (I'm 21 now), and I'll put my experience up against any of the clueless paper MCSEs in my area any day of the week. BUT, the thing is, I live in a small rural area, all of my customers know (and worship) me, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I could get certifications, move to the bigger cities, and make the big bucks, but I'm happy being a big fish in a small pond.
The bottom line is if you get in with a small mom and pop store, you can get by with just experience. But if you want to pull in 80 grand and up, you need your certifications.

[OC12]

I notice that so many people talk about the A+ certification. Well that is all fine and dandy but that is just the beginning. As so many times that I have seen happen this is my opinion. The certification just helps you get in the door if you dont have the expeirence and are honest with the employer and you get hired it will probally be for less but you will get the expeirence. And with expeirence comes the pay. Now on the other hand for someone to get there CCIE they can not just sit down and read a book and go take it you litterly have to know what you are talking about and know how to do it. In order to even attempt the CCIE(Cisco Certified Internet Engineer) So for all of you out there that think that the certifications arent work much. Well the small ones arent but the ones you have to earn DEAFANTLY are ..worth as much as 100,000+ a year.

------------------
OC12-network to live ----live to network

[Alucard]

Well, I guess I'll put my two cents in....

All certifications are very important except Micro$oft. Has anyone ever been to a Micro$oft boot camp? They tell you whats on the test in one room, then scramble you into the next room to take the test. There is no learning involved. Novell, Cisco, and A+ are some of the few certifications that require skill and ingenuity. Until Micro$oft changes their testing structure to an adaptive test, the certifications are toooooo easy to get.
At a company I used to work for, I loved to screw with the MCSE by goofing up things on his computer, and seeing what he did to fix it. Nothing real hard, you know, misplace a file here, delete a driver there. Easy stuff, but ended up in a format & reinstall most of the time. Hee Hee, I'm so mean.

Bottom line is, any idiot can get a MCSE, and it will get you better pay, but real techs learn by experience.

------------------
If you make it idiot-proof, someone will make a better idiot.