[RESOLVED] A+ debate once and for all...

[RHA7]

Lets get this A+ debate over, once and for all! Those who don't like it, explain why, those who do, do the same. Maybe if we put our heads together we can brainstorm and come up with a new standard and\or certification, instead of petty arguing! Please don't be immature and say A+ is dumb and give no reason!

[Darren Wilson]

A+ & other certifications are only any good if you understand what you are doing. Like others have mentioned, it doesn't make an engineer/technician by what they know as anyone can study enough to pass these exams, but doing something is a different thing. I have certified technicians in my workshop ( in which I am the technical Manager ) and they might be able to talk a good fix or soloution, but when it comes down to it they cannot do it, and muggin's here gets lumbered with the repair/upgrade.

I have nothing against good techs who want to have letters or paper behind them, but having the paper does not mean that you can do the job.

For the record I have no certs behind me ( formally ) but have sailed through the MCSE cd's with flying colours.

[RHA7]

What would you like to see as far as certification goes? Hard exams? A hands on technical exam? Maybe an apprenticeship program? If you had to plan a certification standard what sorts of things would you incorporate?

[ellingtond]

It basically boils down to the fact that no "study the material and take the test" certification is anywhere near as good as old fashion time in the field actually troubleshooting and repairing systems.

A+ or MCSE or whatever, you can compare it to basketball. Fundamentals, no matter how strong, are no match for experience. I could care less about certificates, show me what you have done!

[Macgyver V2]

I'm not going to talk bad about certification, but i do agree with Darren Wilson and ellingtond that books, paper and pencils do not make up for jumping in with both hands and learning how to fix problems.

Personally, I am managing several NT servers and have installed networks ranging from the simple two-person 10baseT to the more complex 30 user 100BaseT networks and I have never had to read or study.

[gnslngr]

Personnally, if one wishes to get certified, the only proper certification comes from hands-on & in training. The CompTia courses at the local community collages in my area require this training prior to the exam. The system here demands that you know what you are doing before awarding an A+ peice of paper to hang in the shop.

[[email protected]]

OK. I have worked in multiple computer shops in my years as a technician... I have been working in the fields for approximately 8 years now... One place I worked, I worked with a guy that spent over $10,000 on certifications, including, a+, MCSE, CNA, and 2 other network certifications that I can't remember, and he knew NOTHING about networking! He tried to set up our office network which ran '95 using NetBIOS! He claimed it was the easiest and FASTEST way! I also know a guy, who was a+ certified, and he didn't even know how to install a CD-ROM Driver!! He didn't know how to FDISK, or install a Video Driver!! The only reason why he got hired was his A+ on his resume'. I have NO certifications at all, and have been offered a job at Microsoft.... Just to show you what you can do WITHOUT certifications. I AM NOT telling you NOT to get certifications, b/c I plan on getting MCSE and A+ soon, b/c it looks good on a resume'... but NOTHING will teach you about computers more than in the field, hands on experience... Certifications mean NOTHING anymore...

[alioops]

I am looking at getting some certification now, and the points are interesting.....
I have been playing with computers for about 8 years, currently work as a part time technican in a shop, and am going to school full time for computer support and networking. Even with this, I know that a lot of companies want certification, and the unemployment levels here are high, so it is probably the way I will have to go. It is sort of frustrating, though, to know that someone who can memorize can pass the A+ and get a job over me, because I don't have that piece of paper. Like was said above, it looks good on a resume.... so let the test writing begin....

Alicia

[ellingtond]

Need a job? Move to Raleigh, NC. If you can spell CPU you get $40,000. If you know what it means you get $60,000 and a corner office.

Better yet, do like I do and consult

FYI 2% unemployement.

[ReBoot]

Unfortunately most employers don't realize that A+ is a joke, and hire techs because they have it, only to find out later that most A+ techs don't have a clue.
This is changing. Some employers are now looking for experience and track record as conditions of employment, not certifications.
Certainly MCSE and such are demanding, and worthwhile certs to have, but A+ is such a breeze. My daughter (she's 11) just passed the A+ exam, after studying at home in spare time, she got 97% on her first try. Go figure.

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Who needs a life, I have Internet!

[alioops]

*chuckle*

and for yours, 18% unemployment, and $6.00 and hour.....*s*
hopefully will one day get a really good job at about $30,000......*sigh*

Alicia

[ellingtond]

So I finally sat down and took some sample A+ tests to confirm my feelings about A+.

Who writes this stuff? There were so many questions I disagreed with, were subjective, or the answers could change based on the situation. Oh sure, the hardware questions and IRQ stuff may have been helpful. But the performance, troubleshooting and customer satisfaction parts were absolutely bogus. What a load of garbage. I worried before about an A+ person lacking knowledge; now I worry that they have been taught wrong.

BTW, the only reason I care is that a friend has been required to get A+ as a condition for promotion.

[gmoney2626]

I just happened to stumble in on this topic and thought i would add my 2 cents. I have been working with computers for about 3 years now. I am currently working on MCSE passed Win95 and Network essentials. I talked with someone that ended up convincing me on taking the A+ test. I found that i was spending more time training myself on the bass ackwards thinking behind some of the troubleshooting, preventative maintenance and the customer satisfaction. As I was studying I couldn't help but think of all the people that rely on this certification as a means of determining someones ability. I found that alot of the books out there used to study this certification was wrong or mistyped. It is bad enough that you have to decide what is going to be the best source to study from but it is really bad when your decision is based on which one has the least mistakes. To top it off when I went to take my test I had a question that in my eyes was completely wrong. The question went along the lines of what do you use to edit registry in Win 95. Selections where 1)edit,com 2)sysedit.com 3)some other obviously wrong answer 4)regedit.com. You would think that if you had to pay over $200 dollars to take a test they would at least give you a question with the right answer.

[ellingtond]

A+ Followup. . . .I did some research and found out that a bunch, (Dozens) of the questions on the training CD I had been given to review were WRONG. Very wrong. Contacted the sales rep, he contacted to developer. . .I was told they are working on a "Major Fix."

[FastHackM]

For the record I am A+ cert, 2 yrs. exp. I agree 100% with Ellington. I bought A+ study software from a company (forgot which one, but it suks!) for $69 and it turned out to be the equivalent of an etch-a-sketch to a chief engineer. It did nothing to prepare me for the test, it was only because I studied ForeFront's material also that I was able to pass it! It is a fact that if you don't know how to do it in the real world, but you have a piece of paper your phony! On the other hand if you know what you are doing, but don't have the paper employers might not take you serious! Ah, but if you know how to do it and have paper on the wall your on the scene! By the way the core portion was tough (I hates 3.1 don't you!)