How do I bill for database design??

[Renée]

Hey, guys...I posted a while back about how I should charge for contract tech support and the like and got some great advice. One of the pieces of wisdom was that I should NOT charge by the hour for database design (thanks, cyberhh). Well, now I have a reason to apply that (going to be building a db for an old employer in Access) and another question about billing.

How DO I charge for database design? By the number of objects I have to build in? By an estimate for how long it will take me and then stick to it no matter how long it really takes? By the size of the thing once it's finished? I am so clueless (obviously). Help!!

[Quiet Thunder]

Maybe you could charge by entry in the db. Personally I charge by the hour, but I'm sure there are different ways. I'd try to stear away from giving one rough estimate, because you have no idea how much time it'll cost. Maybe they'll have a lot of weird entries that'll take up more time. Maybe they'll decide to add more entries after you begin.

[Renée]

Originally posted by Quiet Thunder:
Maybe you could charge by entry in the db.

Entries...? I don't follow...what do you mean? Objects?

[CobraTekMax]

I'd probably go with an estimate of how long you think it's going to take you. Then stick to it.

If it's exceptionally large, though, then I'd look at charging based on size. $xx/MB.

[Mr_Miyagi]

BEFORE U START

Get them to write or draw the structure; outline any fields and / or functions / reports they want.

Quote for that,based on time taken.

I GUARANTEE they will complain and ask for mods / additions. if its not in the original spec, do the same again and quote for that work.

Doing it this way means u get paid a realistic fee for work you could have ended up doing for nothing!

IMHO

[cyberhh]

What you need to do is as follows:

1. Setup a prelimenary meeting with your client, have a few databases of various styles along with you. - charge for this meeting (at least track the time spent and include it in the bid)

2. Work with the client and draw up a prelimenary database flow chart - detailing the input and output methods (Print, screen, web, other format) that they would like avail. As well as find out how large a database you will be building. - BTW Access and SQL/Oracle are two different pricing classes - VERY important.

3. Have some numbers in your head - know what you can and cannot do - what you will have to learn and what you know wrote - as your customer details the basics - over estimate a basic figure in your head (maybe write it on your notes) then for each addt'l non-mandatory feature - write and addt'l figure. Remember - this is "PROGRAMMING" and will not be billed hourly to the client - it will be a bid job. If they ask give hem and haw a little - have not drawn up a comprehensive plan about what this will entail, etc.. however somewhere in the nieghborhood of .....$ and explain that the basics are ..... and the addt'l features add ..... - figure out timelines (can add a ton of $$$ to the mix)

4. Submit to them a comprehensive bid - what they can expect - what you expect and exactly what and when they will get and EXACTLY what it will cost - as well as the bid terms - if it is a short job you can do: 100% on completion, 50% down, 50% on completion - 10% down +10%/mo until complete, etc...

5. Make sure to update your client often, let them know the progress and maybe demonstrate for them how the project is coming along (all about the client having the warm and fuzzies.)

Some rules to live by:

1. I always come in under bid - if that means that I have to add a little cushion to my bid, so be it.

2. NEVER make changes without documentation from the client - these should be documented in the final bill - even as NC (No Charge) - when you give something away - let the client know

3. Be reasonable - as the job gets bigger - your hourly should be cheaper.

4. Always finish early - leave out a few features if neccessary, but you want to tbe done on time.

5. Make sure it is stable and works well. Again, leave out the features (they can be added later) but make sure the mandatory pieces are fully operational before the deadline.

6. Make money - if your client has a problem with your offer, let them counter - but DO NOT feel like you should do the job at a rock bottom price - you are providing high quality service and that is worth something. You want a mercedes - you are not paying for a yugo. But - this does not mean that you should retire on a 3 week job either - be fair.

Let me know how I can be more specific, or help in any way.

[JungleMan1]

*DO NOT* charge by the hour

Do it by MB, or by entry.

I have 666 posts now LOLOLOL

[geeksRus]

Something to remember, it will take you half again as long as you think it will. If you have done any database design in the past you know what I mean. Another thing, DO NOT do the work in the clients office.
Document EVERYTHING, place comments in any code you have to write...6 months down the rode you may not remember what a routine was for.

2 years ago I designed a medium sized database for a title-search company and charged $2,500. Probably not enuff but it was as much as the client would pay.

Keep in mind also that you will be expected to support the software as well as train any users in its operation.

Just as important as the money is what will be expected of you AFTER the system is delivered. Get this in writing and signed and stick by it. Have the person in authority sign off on the project after delivery. Some users will drive you crazy wanting changes made in the design after delivery and want them made for free.

[Renée]

Thank you SO much for your advice, everybody! I've printed the topic out and am about to get started on the plan for the project. I've still got a day and half before I meet with the client, so if anybody has other gems of wisdom, please throw them in. I'll check back before D-day.

[Mr_Miyagi]

Originally posted by cyberhh:
What you need to do is as follows:

1. Setup a prelimenary meeting with your client, have a few databases of various styles along with you. - charge for this meeting (at least track the time spent and include it in the bid)

2. Work with the client and draw up a prelimenary database flow chart - detailing the input and output methods (Print, screen, web, other format) that they would like avail. As well as find out how large a database you will be building. - BTW Access and SQL/Oracle are two different pricing classes - VERY important.

3. Have some numbers in your head - know what you can and cannot do - what you will have to learn and what you know wrote - as your customer details the basics - over estimate a basic figure in your head (maybe write it on your notes) then for each addt'l non-mandatory feature - write and addt'l figure. Remember - this is "PROGRAMMING" and will not be billed hourly to the client - it will be a bid job. If they ask give hem and haw a little - have not drawn up a comprehensive plan about what this will entail, etc.. however somewhere in the nieghborhood of .....$ and explain that the basics are ..... and the addt'l features add ..... - figure out timelines (can add a ton of $$$ to the mix)

4. Submit to them a comprehensive bid - what they can expect - what you expect and exactly what and when they will get and EXACTLY what it will cost - as well as the bid terms - if it is a short job you can do: 100% on completion, 50% down, 50% on completion - 10% down +10%/mo until complete, etc...

5. Make sure to update your client often, let them know the progress and maybe demonstrate for them how the project is coming along (all about the client having the warm and fuzzies.)

Some rules to live by:

1. I always come in under bid - if that means that I have to add a little cushion to my bid, so be it.

2. NEVER make changes without documentation from the client - these should be documented in the final bill - even as NC (No Charge) - when you give something away - let the client know

3. Be reasonable - as the job gets bigger - your hourly should be cheaper.

4. Always finish early - leave out a few features if neccessary, but you want to tbe done on time.

5. Make sure it is stable and works well. Again, leave out the features (they can be added later) but make sure the mandatory pieces are fully operational before the deadline.

6. Make money - if your client has a problem with your offer, let them counter - but DO NOT feel like you should do the job at a rock bottom price - you are providing high quality service and that is worth something. You want a mercedes - you are not paying for a yugo. But - this does not mean that you should retire on a 3 week job either - be fair.

Let me know how I can be more specific, or help in any way.

didn't i say that? lol