Stern

[Cleetus]

But ILTU, with radio there is no v-chip, net nanny or parental controls. There is no way to put any control on what is broadcast like with the previously mentioned.

[Ya_know]

...

Looks like we just differe on what "within reason" means. I think it's safe to say that our minds aren't going to meet on this so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I am getting sick of threads ending with the "agree to disagree" mentality. Don't tell me you are giving up that easy!?!

[Cleetus]

What about threads where we agree, ya_know?

[Ya_know]

What about threads where we agree, ya_know?

I know, I am getting sick of seeing so many of those too...

[ilovetheusers]

But ILTU, with radio there is no v-chip, net nanny or parental controls. There is no way to put any control on what is broadcast like with the previously mentioned.

As I've said numerous times, no one put a gun to your head and made you buy a TV or Radio. If you don't like the awful satan box then don't buy one and if you do then pay attention to what your kid watches.


That is all.

[Cleetus]

Dude that is a weak copout in having no discussion on what it might take to have an ordered, civilized society with modern conveniences and technologies and intermixing it with any morallity at all. You say you wish for personal judgement by all by wishing that you didn't have to work any harder for things outside the mainstream. Weak, dude, real weak.

[Ya_know]

As I've said numerous times, no one put a gun to your head and made you buy a TV or Radio. If you don't like the awful satan box then don't buy one and if you do then pay attention to what your kid watches.


That is all.

So you are saying that I can't trust that public broadcasts will be at a respectable level, and that I can’t trust my kids to listen to the radio, and that I should be there every waking moment of their lives to ensure that these things are not used by my kids? Now who’s rights and freedoms are being infringed upon?

As far as paying attention to what my kids watch and listen to, I can only take so much sponge bob, Arnold, and all the other things that they do watch. I can handle Warner brothers just fine, but the kids don’t go for the bugs the way I used to…are you even going to suggest that it is the producers rights to show these kids how to screw, and teach them blatant innuendo? And because of that, I have to watch sponge bob with the kids!?! You so crazy!

[ilovetheusers]

I fail to see how asking parents to take care of their own concerns is a copout. Seems like logic to me and if I can do it I'm pretty sure that you can too.

As for my arguments, you have both ignored what I have actually said in place of manufacturing an argument against something I didn’t actually say and I’m tired of addressing it but I will if you really want to. You still have yet to produce “What law forces you to own a TV or a Radio?“ You act as if life could not exist without either but I state that it can and does.

Am I for less restriction, yes I am. But, you’re both approaching this like I want porn on daytime TV and I’m not looking for that. I’m just asking that a new process be developed that allows trial by jury to decide if something is indecent or not. The present system we have place does not allow for people to seek legal redress of their issues because they can tie up that persons ability to make a living while seeking redress. It would be one thing if that person was making funny money or trafficking illegal substances but they are not. In fact they aren’t really in violation of any law per se. If this was anything else you’d be up in arms over having a body that answers to no one that has the ability to levy fines against people with no proof or legal course of redress. If you want to take the wind out of my sails, go look up the standard that they are using to determine who if fined and who is not.



Imagine you have a computer store and need you’re Q- cert. to operate at all. Bob, your competitor complains to Q- that you hosed his HDD and would not give him a new one. Without ever looking into it they fine you $5,000. When you try to fight it your license renewal becomes lost, papers that take days to process are not processing, you can not conduct business. What do you do now?


See that’s the system we have in place and that’s where my main problem is. If you are going to remove someone from their lively hood (albeit perhaps for good reason) you must give them a course of redress.
Why are you arguing against changing that?

[Escape_Driver]

You obviously don't have kids, so let me advise you on something that is a matter of fact. You can stop your kids from doing things in your own house; you can even stop your kids friend’s from doing and seeing/hearing things in your own house, but once they walk out the door there is nothing you can do but trust that you have taught them well enough to discern right from wrong, and have the moral fortitude to stay on the narrow path.

Now, I know at some point you were a kid, so you know this to be a fact. Kids will gain access to things that parents try every day to censor from them. Parents can’t be with their kids 24/7, and it wouldn’t be good parenting if they did. So the next best thing is to be able to trust that society will put up certain boundaries that will prevent a majority of youth from wrongdoing. Things like carding for cigarettes, alcohol, music CD’s, R rated movies, and pornography are some thing that stops a lot of kids in their tracks. The other is that public airways and television stations follow certain censorship guidelines.

The day parents can’t trust the FCC to provide some civility to the public, is the day parents need to do what is best for their children, and make it so that the FCC hears their complaint…!

As far as your masturbation statement, people fu$k all the time too, doesn't mean I want my kids to have a front row seat for the whole act!!!

But the point is that these are things that go on in the real world. Now heres a point to raise. (I don't know the right thing) Is it better to completely isolate your child from everything bad or ugly and leave him/her unprepared for experincing these things in the future or is it better to let your kid see some truly evil and bad things and let them be more prepared for what they may experience in the future. I can not say which is better. Both have good points and some really bad points. Is there a middle ground ?

[Cleetus]

But Howard and the love Sponge and the others knew they were towing the line of the rules, they chose to go over for ratings. And the FCC is not the only ones that are like this. The INS for one is like this, ever try dealing with them?
How about the zoning world, my mother was a zoning officer, I can tell you stories what happened there? How about the new Patriot Act and detaining possible terrorists? How about DWI, instant loss of drivers license before your day in court if you refuse to blow?

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for Howard. I have no sympathy for those that knew the rules and choose to break them then get all concerned and bent out of shape when they find themselves in bad situations. It is so easy to follow the rules, and petition for changes or even know you will have to pay fines to get public knowledge to push for changes. Breech of freedom of speech though, sorry, I do not buy one single penny of that thought here.

Also, trial by jury, jesus, how long will you have to wait for that??? You have any clue how long it takes crap to get in front of a jury????

[ilovetheusers]

But Howard and the love Sponge and the others knew they were towing the line of the rules, they chose to go over for ratings. And the FCC is not the only ones that are like this. The INS for one is like this, ever try dealing with them?


Also, trial by jury, jesus, how long will you have to wait for that??? You have any clue how long it takes crap to get in front of a jury????

Crapy things happening in other parts of government is not an excuse for this. Two wrongs don't make another right and zoning isn't protected by a constitutional amendment. For the record the detainment of non citizens isn't my biggest concern but we are a on a similar page there (there needs to be a distinct time limit).

It takes years to get trial by jury but you still have yet to show me what LAW and more to the point STANDARD we are using to prosecute and levy fines.





Did you ever think that they are not breaking rules that are legal? Are you affraid of seeing a case go to the supreme court, because this is where the whole thing is leading to. Well, the point is that it can't and that's the issue.

[Cleetus]

No I am not afraid of things going to supreme court, crap, I hope they do, never said otherwise. You never gave me an article that said that FCC said stern couldn't operate, or even the latest fines, so we are still just spouting our mouths off at less then perfect information.

[ilovetheusers]

Excelent point. He might be full of $***.

The issue still exists that they can and do exactily what I'm talking about to other on air personas. Most famous is the WOW boys Opie and Anthony who were removed because they had a contest to see who could "do it" in the oddest public place.

If you want the standard they use posted the onus is upon you to produce it as you are the one defending their power and the structure of the system. What I know I know from doing research for a paper back in my University days (seven years of cleege down the drain!).

[Ya_know]

But the point is that these are things that go on in the real world. Now heres a point to raise. (I don't know the right thing) Is it better to completely isolate your child from everything bad or ugly and leave him/her unprepared for experincing these things in the future or is it better to let your kid see some truly evil and bad things and let them be more prepared for what they may experience in the future. I can not say which is better. Both have good points and some really bad points. Is there a middle ground ?

That's exactly the point I raised in a different post here. It shouldn't be "out there" where a child can have access to it on open airways. When a parent is ready to expose their children to this kind of talk, it should be their decision to show them, Like in "Me Myself and Irene" when Charlie (Carrey) let's his kids watch Richard Pryor on the cable channel. He pays for it, he had the remote, he let them watch an learn how to have a filthy mouth, but it was his decision to make. Stern isn't there for anything but talking about things that cross the line of decency, and he does it on public airways.

ILTU's, I respect your argument about the course of redress, but that's like saying that Sadam had a right to trial by jury before we invaded Iraq when he was in constant violation of everything that the UN had stipulated for 12 years, and still in power. Do we keep giving him chances, or do we shut him down now, and let him file his complaint in the court system the way everyone else has to do it? Sadam will have his day in court, as will Stern.

And you really show your ignorance when you tell me that there is no law forcing me to have a TV or radio. No, but I have a right to them just the same, and if it is free broadcast, it must meet the standards of decency set forth by the FCC.

Lastly, take it from me, as a surrogate parent you really don't understand the true feelings of being a parent, and the protection you feel down deep. I know because I have been both a surrogate and a biological dad, and the straight up scoop is, until you have one of your own, you don't truly appreciate how wonderful a child in your life is. I love them both so much more intensely now then before my son was born. All that I am saying there, is that you need to check your “better than thou” attitude about parenting…cause you don’t_know everything…

[meatwad]

Excelent point. He might be full of $***.

The issue still exists that they can and do exactily what I'm talking about to other on air personas. Most famous is the WOW boys Opie and Anthony who were removed because they had a contest to see who could "do it" in the oddest public place.

If you want the standard they use posted the onus is upon you to produce it as you are the one defending their power and the structure of the system. What I know I know from doing research for a paper back in my University days (seven years of cleege down the drain!).

You don't think O&A getting canned was deserved? I liked that show and I STILL agreed with the fines. And they got canned in Boston for telling everyone that the Mayor was dead when he wasn't. Mumbles may be a prick, but it wasn't really cool to scare the s*** out of his friends and family by telling everyone he was killed in a horrible car accident.